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Old 21st February 2013, 07:43 AM   #8451
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Meridian was a disappointment?

I rather liked them, although they tended to be too polite, I would have liked a little more attack.

How or in what way did they disappoint you, Frank, I'd really like to know?

I am also speaking of older generations, haven't heard any of their stuff must be over 10 years now. Because of their prices, they are really rare.
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Last edited by dvv; 21st February 2013 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 21st February 2013, 09:31 AM   #8452
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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I had been trying to hear the later DSP models, and it's been a while ago, I thought it was the D6000, but the image doesn't quite jell. But the model was at that level ...

It was driven by the top of the line Meridian source component, at the probably the best audio dealer in Sydney. I was expecting a good performance, I had been reading about the Meridian philosopy for years in HiFi News, but they came across generally as just another hifi speaker, lacking clarity and finesse, and getting shouty with any sort of reasonable volume. There's always the possibility that there was something significantly wrong with the setup, but first impressions are hard to go past, and I didn't really hear anything there to motivate me to want to listen more attentively.

In that time period probably the best demo performance I had come across was the MBL 101Es, driven by their top electronics; this inspired me to get back into the audio game. Obviously the Meridians weren't going to do that, but the gap was still too far ...

Frank
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Old 21st February 2013, 10:10 AM   #8453
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I been working with a friend on building an active set up using his old Leek 12 inch base units in the original boxes . Recently we have used a Fostex full range unit as mid and top (small open enclosure ) . The bass is driven by a massive transistor amp and the mid-top by a SE valve amp ( ECC 83 Brimar , 12BH7A ( GEC-SRPP ) , KT88 in SE UL , Black treasures or whatever ) . It has taken more than a year to get it to gel . Visions of the rockets failing at NASA come to mind . Now it works . The active crossover is a hot rodded car stereo unit ( new op amps and PSU ) . That should have been the first to go . It works so well it is now trusted . Sources of sound are impeccable . The DAC is a Flying Calf which has been hot rodded also , it has beaten off most things . I will be looking at making a DAC soon . I would say getting active to work is not easy .

As the crossover is a car unit the power to all things low voltage is by lead acid cells with 10 uF polyester bypasses .

The strangest effect is no bass and no depth when time alignment is wrong , harshness also . FFT has been used and graphs kept . Graphs of differences are very subtle . The room by accident of good luck is very good .

The Meridian speakers always seemed to sound a bit overly tight . The BBC LS3/5A and Celestion SL6 were to my ears better ( passive ) . SL6 would seem to me an ideal active experiment . The 22 kHz notch could be active . I think some Meridian speakers used negative output impedance ? Bob did mention it in passing ( to Donald Aldous if memory is correct when I was ear-wigging ) . The rep ( Steve ) asked Mr A what he thought . Mr A said " I think you might be using a pair of unmatched speakers " . It was true , one M2 and one M3 . Mr A was 90 + !

I will be making a rare visit to the Bristol, hi fi show on Saturday . If any hot topics come up I will write it up .

Last edited by nigel pearson; 21st February 2013 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 21st February 2013, 04:54 PM   #8454
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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@FAS42

That's odd, Frank, I mean it. I am not saying the Meridian is the best all around, as I said, they're a bit too polite, lacking some speed, but overall very nicely balanced with no obvious vices.

Either you were led to expect more than was realistic, or something was not quite right with the setup. Perhaps a bit of both, I don't know.
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Old 21st February 2013, 07:11 PM   #8455
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post

From your comments, I surmise you like 'em loud, brash and shrill. Not to even walk the deadly killing field of impedance.
Surely you Jest , i dont like horns ....
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Old 21st February 2013, 10:46 PM   #8456
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Well, I really would like to hear the latest DSP models to give the brand "another chance", but haven't managed to get there yet. One day ...

@a.wayne: there's nothing wrong with horns, apart from being sensitive, meaning that inadequacies further back in the chain and other weaknesses will be ruthlessly exposed. Which is ultimately a good thing, because if one gets off one's backside and tries to figure out what's causing the problem, then one will only gain in the end. Over the years my system at times would have sounded to a casual listener like a typical, "unpleasant" horn setup, because I run the sound loud. The terms "brash and shrill" really mean audible distortion generated elsewhere in the audio chain, which is the real enemy ...

Which reminds of a fun time I had in a big department style store some time ago. They had Klipsch F2s, hooked up to a standard Japanese receiver: very good sensitivity, very benign impedance; I put on a recently recorded high energy blues track, and wound up the volume. The power supply in the receiver was up to it, and the sound held together nicely and projected way, way out into the store. The store guy came running fast, "Turn it down, turn it down!!" ...

Those active studio monitors I listened to were a relative joke in comparison ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 21st February 2013 at 10:58 PM. Reason: Typos
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Old 22nd February 2013, 03:47 AM   #8457
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Sorry Frank ,

Some Horns can really sound brash and shrill , but mostly i have a issue with their coloration and shouty character ..

Of course if you happen to be listening at 20M , good choice ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
Well, I really would like to hear the latest DSP models to give the brand "another chance", but haven't managed to get there yet. One day ...

@a.wayne: there's nothing wrong with horns, apart from being sensitive, meaning that inadequacies further back in the chain and other weaknesses will be ruthlessly exposed. Which is ultimately a good thing, because if one gets off one's backside and tries to figure out what's causing the problem, then one will only gain in the end. Over the years my system at times would have sounded to a casual listener like a typical, "unpleasant" horn setup, because I run the sound loud. The terms "brash and shrill" really mean audible distortion generated elsewhere in the audio chain, which is the real enemy ...

Which reminds of a fun time I had in a big department style store some time ago. They had Klipsch F2s, hooked up to a standard Japanese receiver: very good sensitivity, very benign impedance; I put on a recently recorded high energy blues track, and wound up the volume. The power supply in the receiver was up to it, and the sound held together nicely and projected way, way out into the store. The store guy came running fast, "Turn it down, turn it down!!" ...

Those active studio monitors I listened to were a relative joke in comparison ...

Frank

Last edited by a.wayne; 22nd February 2013 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 22nd February 2013, 03:48 AM   #8458
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Nige ,

Talk to me about tables , analog much ...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
7lbs is fine . The Garrard 401 is a good example of design . The motor is more powerful than average ( using about 24VA ) . The drive coupling is more ridged via the idler drive . The motor is a hysteresis type which shows no pole jumps if rotated by hand . The bearing length is about twice that of many and thicker . The rumble from the bearing alone is better than - 80 dB weighted .

I had a bronze platter made for a 301 . The sound was ponderous . Eventually it was scooped out and worked well .

The best improvement to a 301/401 was a very low distortion power supply .
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Old 22nd February 2013, 05:11 AM   #8459
fas42 is online now fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Some Horns can really sound brash and shrill , but mostly i have a issue with their coloration and shouty character ..

Of course if you happen to be listening at 20M , good choice ....
Shoutiness is an attribute I find associated with systems, rather than speakers. My experience is that achieving good sound is like balancing on a sharp, pointy mountain top, rather than a pleasant wandering around on a grassy, round topped hill; if I'm getting top sound then it only takes a slight tipping in one direction, some minor problem and the quality degenerates dramatically into a shouty, unpleasant mess ...

Part of the reasons for this is that I'm using relatively low cost machinery, and I play many recordings that most people wouldn't bother with ...

Frank
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Old 22nd February 2013, 07:16 AM   #8460
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
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Surely you Jest , i dont like horns ....
The Dark One has many shapes and forms ...
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