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Old 18th February 2013, 05:46 PM   #8401
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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No doubt, if you buy Krell you are not buying an empty box, but they have "progressed" so far out of my range it is not worth even dreaming about them. Pass has done the same. I wish they would produce a bread-n-butter amp. Use their knowledge to do another "only" good 100W amp us semi-normal people could dream about again.
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Old 18th February 2013, 05:55 PM   #8402
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Did you like that MRA driver board ...?
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Old 18th February 2013, 05:57 PM   #8403
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
No doubt, if you buy Krell you are not buying an empty box, but they have "progressed" so far out of my range it is not worth even dreaming about them. Pass has done the same. I wish they would produce a bread-n-butter amp. Use their knowledge to do another "only" good 100W amp us semi-normal people could dream about again.
Whats a semi-normal Budget .....?
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Old 18th February 2013, 05:57 PM   #8404
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Remembering back 8000 or so posts, measurements? I have been improving my test set up and just happen to have had the mic feeding an RTA sitting next to my old disgraced Paradigms. The DAC feeding some old Joni Mitchel I know brick walls at 22K. My modified Hafler is quite clean. Yet POW, the amount of spikes above 23K were astounding. I put a LP second order filter across the speaker to no effect. It is amazing how much these tweeters miss-behave all by themselves. THAT would seem to be the problem my wife has with her sensitive hearing. Neither of my recent speaker builds with Seas tweeters do this( she approves of them) and the HDS I am planning on using next does not. So, what kind of measurement that could be typed up as a number for marketing could reflect this problem?
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Old 18th February 2013, 06:01 PM   #8405
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
No doubt, if you buy Krell you are not buying an empty box, but they have "progressed" so far out of my range it is not worth even dreaming about them. Pass has done the same. I wish they would produce a bread-n-butter amp. Use their knowledge to do another "only" good 100W amp us semi-normal people could dream about again.
In 1995-2002, their 250 WRMS amp used a whopping 118 transistors for the VAS only, plus current amps, plus fully electronic regulation for all of it on several levels.

Just testing all those devices had to cost a bundle. It's things like this that we tend to forget in our own projects, our time is for free because we're having fun.

Consequently, as you say, the prices have escalated into astronomy. Everyone seems hell bent on outdoing and outcosting everyone else.

In the beginning, in the early 80ies, Krell did have KSA 50, 100, etc, from smaller to bigger, a bit of something for everyone.

If you're interested, I do have Krell clone set of schematics around somewhere, I can look and send them to you to any adress you designate.

Cheers,
DVV
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Old 18th February 2013, 06:08 PM   #8406
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Whats a semi-normal Budget .....?
I think that in the end, most of us will have the basic answer: something that costs a percentage of what we make which won't hurt us.

The simple fact that we live all over the world changes the price point view all by itself.
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Old 18th February 2013, 06:30 PM   #8407
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Remembering back 8000 or so posts, measurements? I have been improving my test set up and just happen to have had the mic feeding an RTA sitting next to my old disgraced Paradigms. The DAC feeding some old Joni Mitchel I know brick walls at 22K. My modified Hafler is quite clean. Yet POW, the amount of spikes above 23K were astounding. I put a LP second order filter across the speaker to no effect. It is amazing how much these tweeters miss-behave all by themselves. THAT would seem to be the problem my wife has with her sensitive hearing. Neither of my recent speaker builds with Seas tweeters do this( she approves of them) and the HDS I am planning on using next does not. So, what kind of measurement that could be typed up as a number for marketing could reflect this problem?
That is most likely distortion and break up; some tweeters can produce a lot of ultrasonic harmonics and have ultrasonic break up modes that can be hit by them. Have you got some hard dome (alu, mylar) in there?
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Old 18th February 2013, 06:36 PM   #8408
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Whats a semi-normal Budget .....?
Realizing that "normal" people need a decent $100 table top radio, I accept that I am not in the normal class. I am also old enough not to be in the ego class. Basic marketing says if they are the top prestige class, their entry level should be just over the top of the next class down. Was that not the basis for the old KSA100? So, by today's market, that would be in the 2500 to 3K range. I could actually think about that. Plus, stores could actually have one. They can't have too many 10K amps sitting around. Those days are sadly gone. Boulder Sound Gallery and Listen Up are but fond memories of when I lived in a more civil place in a more civil time. Yea, I have at least thought seriously about an A21. Tease me with one step up. Although I do have my doubts that any speaker made, or any source material available, can really make use of an amp that good. I can AFFORD a table radio. I am willing to PAY for HI-FI, I don't bother even looking at bragging rights class.
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Old 18th February 2013, 06:46 PM   #8409
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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With a 2K budget tou have a lot of choices for "high-end " sound , used of course, 500-1K the choices are small.

The only hi- end sound under 1k i have heard personally is from Aragon, PS -audio and some threshold, the occasional Krell Ksa80 show up around 1k . imo Krells sound best below 8 ohm , The 4004 aragon also has good sonics , favorite being the PS-audio 200cx for under 1K....

Last edited by a.wayne; 18th February 2013 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 18th February 2013, 07:11 PM   #8410
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by vacuphile View Post
That is most likely distortion and break up; some tweeters can produce a lot of ultrasonic harmonics and have ultrasonic break up modes that can be hit by them. Have you got some hard dome (alu, mylar) in there?
Yup, itr ia an aluminum dome. Fortunatlly the Seas 27TD series, either soft or metal, is far better behaved. My last two projects use one of each. Everything has it's breakup modes, just the Studio 20's seem to be far below the line. Still, when they came out they were a steal at $600 a pair, besting many at twice the price. All that really says is how bad so many speakers were. We spent a long time blaming the amplifiers.
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