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Old 23rd January 2013, 08:51 AM   #8231
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Big Fi is valid , it is super real . All we need is it can be hi fi when asked . The best motorcars have this . Although bottom draw of supercars I asked my friend why the Golf GTi was so well liked ? " because your granny can jump straight in and drive it , it will forgive and encourage " . I suppose perfect has three qualities . Big , accurate and forgiving . The Phoenix cinema in Oxford has moments when it is hi fi of this type . It is when a high hat is played I notice . The other cinema I go to is fine , problem is at best mid fi . At that cinema I have to watch the film instead ( I go to please another often , life of Pi , my jury is still out on that one , it was visual big fi ) .

Dvv mentioned he liked the film about our old King George if I remember correctly ? It has the Beethoven 7 second movement . The Phoenix almost was as good as it gets at that point of the film . Ricardo Muti is an interesting version . One day I will get the courage to ask to see the set up . If I ever get my big amp finished ( and I do mean big ) I hope they might accept one from me as a gift . I will be the first to tell them if mine is not as good as theirs . They asked me about fixing the speakers in the bar , they never got back to me and they know I will do it for free . That shakes ones confidence ? Not really , the modern world has no attention span and sees no value in gratuity . They forgot more quickly than I offered is my guess ? I am a bit diffident like that George , maybe they couldn't read my offer ?
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Old 23rd January 2013, 01:38 PM   #8232
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Toole's comments on the issue at hand ...

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_i...ritic_28_r.pdf
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Old 23rd January 2013, 08:20 PM   #8233
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
Big Fi is valid , it is super real . All we need is it can be hi fi when asked . The best motorcars have this . Although bottom draw of supercars I asked my friend why the Golf GTi was so well liked ? " because your granny can jump straight in and drive it , it will forgive and encourage " . I suppose perfect has three qualities . Big , accurate and forgiving . The Phoenix cinema in Oxford has moments when it is hi fi of this type . It is when a high hat is played I notice . The other cinema I go to is fine , problem is at best mid fi . At that cinema I have to watch the film instead ( I go to please another often , life of Pi , my jury is still out on that one , it was visual big fi ) .

Dvv mentioned he liked the film about our old King George if I remember correctly ? It has the Beethoven 7 second movement . The Phoenix almost was as good as it gets at that point of the film . Ricardo Muti is an interesting version . One day I will get the courage to ask to see the set up . If I ever get my big amp finished ( and I do mean big ) I hope they might accept one from me as a gift . I will be the first to tell them if mine is not as good as theirs . They asked me about fixing the speakers in the bar , they never got back to me and they know I will do it for free . That shakes ones confidence ? Not really , the modern world has no attention span and sees no value in gratuity . They forgot more quickly than I offered is my guess ? I am a bit diffident like that George , maybe they couldn't read my offer ?
Indeed I did, Nige, "The King's Speech" is up there among my personal Top 10 films ever. Not surprisingly, over one half of my own Top 10 movies ever was British made. NOBODY does historical movies and series like the Brits, except perhaps the Aussies (who are Brits by extension, with a lot of the Irish thrown in the mix).

What I didn't tell, as it didn't seem relevant at the time, is that my cable TV receiver is connected to my Luxman preamp, and hence the entire soundtrack of the film came to via Luxman-Marantz Dynamic Duo. I only watch American movies with headphones, due to an inordinate number of powerful explosions, train wrecks, helicopter busts, etc.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 09:05 PM   #8234
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Toole's comments on the issue at hand ...

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_i...ritic_28_r.pdf
"Loudspeakers are not the biggest problem in the audo industry" - Yesss!!!

But ... "The loudspeaker/room/listener interface is a very serious problem ..." - disagree severely !!

What he said is true, IF the system is producing an audible level of highly objectionable distortion artifacts. Typically this is the case, so then the solution is to engineer that aforementioned interface like crazy to ameliorate the problem, sweep the dirt under the carpet.

However, I believe there is a better way, which is to not let the dirt get in the room in the first place. A very clean system in other words, which gives the ear/brain plenty of room to breathe in; the mind then does all the "hard work" sorting out the sound in a quite effortless way, irrespective of room peculiarities, etc ...

Frank
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Old 23rd January 2013, 09:36 PM   #8235
jimbro is offline jimbro  United States
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Well I do believe Toole when he talks about the difficulty of measuring loudspeakers. Some people on the Enabl thread are screaming for measurement proof when I believe it's unrealistic to measure all the nuances of all we hear without extraordinary cost and time - if it can be done at all. Or at least it seems to me with my limited experience.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 10:30 PM   #8236
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by jimbro View Post
Well I do believe Toole when he talks about the difficulty of measuring loudspeakers. Some people on the Enabl thread are screaming for measurement proof when I believe it's unrealistic to measure all the nuances of all we hear without extraordinary cost and time - if it can be done at all. Or at least it seems to me with my limited experience.
There are not many anechoic chambers around. And although the great outdoors could in principle suffice, with the loudspeaker well above the ground along with the measurement mics, where, anymore or if ever, are things quiet enough and free from breezes?

An intermediate approach is measurement on a ground plane, which with sufficient assumptions and corrections can almost get you there for some of the characteristics.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 10:32 PM   #8237
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Toole's comments on the issue at hand ...

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/back_i...ritic_28_r.pdf
By the way that's a stunt double on the cover. Floyd has never sanctioned his portrayal as an action hero
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Old 23rd January 2013, 11:13 PM   #8238
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
There are not many anechoic chambers around. And although the great outdoors could in principle suffice, with the loudspeaker well above the ground along with the measurement mics, where, anymore or if ever, are things quiet enough and free from breezes?

An intermediate approach is measurement on a ground plane, which with sufficient assumptions and corrections can almost get you there for some of the characteristics.
Ground plane measurements are actually considered as good as measuring in an anechoic chambers ( when not raining and snowing ) very much what i use as oppose to above ground , If doing gated indoors , I only do 1k-22K ...

AES E-Library Ground Plane Acoustic Measurement of Loudspeaker Systems
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Old 23rd January 2013, 11:13 PM   #8239
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
There are not many anechoic chambers around. And although the great outdoors could in principle suffice, with the loudspeaker well above the ground along with the measurement mics, where, anymore or if ever, are things quiet enough and free from breezes?

An intermediate approach is measurement on a ground plane, which with sufficient assumptions and corrections can almost get you there for some of the characteristics.
Tom Danley, of http://www.danleysoundlabs.com, has some excellent ideas and thoughts on the subject ...

Edit: Excuse the brain dead editor this website uses, I've given up trying to get that link to be inserted correctly ....

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 23rd January 2013 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 24th January 2013, 02:11 AM   #8240
gootee is offline gootee  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Indeed I did, Nige, "The King's Speech" is up there among my personal Top 10 films ever. Not surprisingly, over one half of my own Top 10 movies ever was British made. NOBODY does historical movies and series like the Brits, except perhaps the Aussies (who are Brits by extension, with a lot of the Irish thrown in the mix).

What I didn't tell, as it didn't seem relevant at the time, is that my cable TV receiver is connected to my Luxman preamp, and hence the entire soundtrack of the film came to via Luxman-Marantz Dynamic Duo. I only watch American movies with headphones, due to an inordinate number of powerful explosions, train wrecks, helicopter busts, etc.
Sorry that the conversation has already moved on but I've been meaning to say that I share your appreciation of Harman Kardon and Luxman. I have several of each (receiver/amps) that I have purchased Used, from the late 1970s or early 80s, mostly, and am always amazed at how good they sound. Incredibly good, really. Even the little 50-watters seem to drive the 4-Ohm Maggies perfectly. (Actually, even a 30-Watt Adcom drives them almost as well as my biggest power amp, which is rated to do 1000 Watts into 1 Ohm, average, continuously.)
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