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Old 13th January 2013, 03:55 AM   #8051
benb is offline benb  United States
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Earbuds costs $12??? Oh, THOSE must be the BIG NAME BRAND earbuds.
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Old 13th January 2013, 06:25 AM   #8052
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Nice picture, but English analog console is drawn in some strange place of the chain.
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Old 13th January 2013, 06:28 AM   #8053
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Wayne, even with a supremely linear speaker with an ultra tight frequency tolerance, at low level the bass will subjectively be underwhelmed. It will be there, but will seem to be at a lower SPL than the midrange.Ditto for treble, although to a somewhat lesser level.
I was surprised how my big TDLs seemed to have less bass than my old Mission 752s at low volumes. Then I measured them and saw how much 2nd and 3rd harmonic the Missions were generating at low frequencies, although the fundamental was way down on the TDLs

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Lastly, some manufacturers (e.g. Kenwood/Trio) choose to provide only bass boost, which is unacceptable to me, I feel this debalances the overall sound, and much as I dearly love deep, clean and powerfull bass, too much of anything will usually spoil the show.
Maybe done to avoid idiots blowing tweeters by activating at higher volumes
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Old 13th January 2013, 07:47 AM   #8054
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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I did explain my position ....

Anyway , over the last few weeks we have lost two , Bongiorno and David Manley. CLass-D may win by default at this rate .....
What do you mean "lost"?

Don't tell me James Bongiorno is no longer with us?

If so, I am REALLY sorry то hеаr thат. I have not met him personally, but I have sort of met with him via the Internet, heck, I even squeezed an Internet interview from him in 2000 or 2001, it's on TNTaudio.com.

He is one of the very few people who have profoundly impressed me. For each and every question I had for him, he provided a full and complete answer, with abundant sidelines. I have learnt much from him, for which I am forever grateful. Grumpy as he sometimes was.

This is a sad, sad day for me.
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Old 13th January 2013, 07:51 AM   #8055
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by davidsrsb View Post
I was surprised how my big TDLs seemed to have less bass than my old Mission 752s at low volumes. Then I measured them and saw how much 2nd and 3rd harmonic the Missions were generating at low frequencies, although the fundamental was way down on the TDLs


Maybe done to avoid idiots blowing tweeters by activating at higher volumes
In my experinece, there's no stopping an idiot.

I have seen quite a few amps destryed by people, who have no idea what +12 dB at say 40 Hz does to an amp. All in quest of believable, often overblown bass, on speakers whit 4, 5 or 6" "bass/mid" drivers.
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Old 13th January 2013, 07:57 AM   #8056
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Mr PP,

You should know that our old buddy Wayne is a proponent of the Free Current Flow Society, given that his bass driver has an impedance of around 1 Ohm. Yep, no typo, I did say 1 (one) Ohm.

Hence, to him, any amp incapable of delivering at least 30 Amps continuous ain't no amp at all.

Talk about muscle amps ...
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Old 13th January 2013, 08:19 AM   #8057
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Loud +12dB at 40 Hz would have most bass reflex woofers banging into their endstops. The amplifier should survive, but the speaker won't.
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Old 13th January 2013, 09:14 AM   #8058
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Loud +12dB at 40 Hz would have most bass reflex woofers banging into their endstops. The amplifier should survive, but the speaker won't.
Well, that depends. Mostly, what I saw was done with cheap Technics amps (very popular locally in their day), within the 25-50 WRMS range. It's not hard to imagine low power amp clipping when pushed hard during parties, especially with electronic music.

Also, most of the evil deeds were perpetrated with small loudspeakers, which by default have little or no deep bass, given that most don't have the lower two octaves. Which is why they ramp up the bass pot, trying to force out what is not there by default.

You're not likely to catch anyone with a 10" or bigger bass doing the same, or at least two 6" bass drivers in a floorstanding speaker. For example, the JBL Ti600 speakers in my wife's system can actually produce very decent bass all on their own, so the lact of any form of loudness in her HK 680 integrated amp is really no defect at all. Then again, she's a versed user, she'd never ramp anything up.
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Old 13th January 2013, 09:23 AM   #8059
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Mr PP,

You should know that our old buddy Wayne is a proponent of the Free Current Flow Society, given that his bass driver has an impedance of around 1 Ohm. Yep, no typo, I did say 1 (one) Ohm.

Hence, to him, any amp incapable of delivering at least 30 Amps continuous ain't no amp at all.

Talk about muscle amps ...
Correction , 1ohm from 300-22K ..
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Old 13th January 2013, 09:25 AM   #8060
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Well, that depends. Mostly, what I saw was done with cheap Technics amps (very popular locally in their day), within the 25-50 WRMS range. It's not hard to imagine low power amp clipping when pushed hard during parties, especially with electronic music.

Also, most of the evil deeds were perpetrated with small loudspeakers, which by default have little or no deep bass, given that most don't have the lower two octaves. Which is why they ramp up the bass pot, trying to force out what is not there by default.

You're not likely to catch anyone with a 10" or bigger bass doing the same, or at least two 6" bass drivers in a floorstanding speaker. For example, the JBL Ti600 speakers in my wife's system can actually produce very decent bass all on their own, so the lact of any form of loudness in her HK 680 integrated amp is really no defect at all. Then again, she's a versed user, she'd never ramp anything up.

Loudness comp usually switches out after a certain db, a 12db bass boost better be accompanied by a lot of power to avoid clipping.
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