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Old 7th January 2013, 04:36 PM   #7971
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you're pretty much describing what I perceived about class D.
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Old 7th January 2013, 04:42 PM   #7972
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FWIW I thinks that amps from -for example- Pass Labs do sound nice. And that's exactly the problem I have with these amps, they have a sound of their own (distorsion!)

The Hypex nCore and UcD amps are very, very neutral sounding (at least to me) backed up with measurements. But the Hypex range of amps represents just 1 method of designing a class D amp. The topology used (self oscillating with the output filter in he feedback loop) has some clear benefits (load independent behavior, low output impedance, low THD+N).

To me HiFi is about the most accurate reproduction possible, and this is one of the ways to get there. Not the only way
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:08 PM   #7973
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Yeah but doesn't class-d measure's poorly and they use a lot of negative feedback '...


Bel Canto mono's 10khz square wave ....
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:21 PM   #7974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Yeah but doesn't class-d measure's poorly and they use a lot of negative feedback '
but doesn't class A measure poorly as they don't (generally) use a lot of negative feedback?

harmonic distortion:
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:25 PM   #7975
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Plot generated using Prism Sound dScope III.


Distortion starts high, lowers then knee the rotation starts right at about 150 watts regardless of the load , so it's a 150 watt amp in 8/4/2 for best sonics , does have good drive ...
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:28 PM   #7976
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
but doesn't class A measure poorly as they don't (generally) use a lot of negative feedback?

harmonic distortion:
This is not true of the genre, search again ...
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:36 PM   #7977
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Datasheet of the Hypex amps I use, I think they measure (and sound) rather nice. http://www.hypex.nl/docs/UcD400HG_datasheet.pdf
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:40 PM   #7978
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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@Mark, @Brad

Perhaps I was misunderstood, probably due to my misleading formulation of the text.

I am in no way disagreeing, discussing or, God forbid!, in any way belittling Mark's comment on "digital" class D amps being actually analog below the bonnet. While it was technically correct, the truth is that in the general public, class D is referred to as being digital.

Given my lacklustre experience with them so far, I have not taken any interest in them, and am hence unaware of the state of matters at this time. They quite simply sounded too shut in for my taste, I am far too used to a wide and deep soundstage to be one bit interested in listening to the same, but shut into a 4 by 4 metre room. To me, a 64 person symphonic orchestra cannot be put into such a small space, except possibly by using nano technology.

That's all there is to it.

And, just for the record, I have not yet encountered Hypex products in vivo.
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Old 7th January 2013, 08:46 PM   #7979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Yeah but doesn't class-d measure's poorly and they use a lot of negative feedback '...


Bel Canto mono's 10khz square wave ....
Not all class D amps measure badly, and what's wrong with negative feedback as applied in the UcD & nCore examples I used? (Yes I just opened that can of worms )
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Old 7th January 2013, 09:07 PM   #7980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
This is not true of the genre, search again ...
that is a well respected design. note that I erased the name. I can post many resembling HD plots.

there are few class A amps measured by Stereophile that failed to reproduce a satisfying 10kHz wave. my point is that as long as we quote the measurements that we like to quote, we're going nowhere. I still don't see how a "perfectly" (note the quotes) reproduced 10kHz square wave relates to good sound while a distortion plot has nothing to do with it. yes, one can feel that an amp is subjectively not fast enough and intuitively relate that to square wave response but I'm yet to be convinced there's a direct connection.

@dvv
so you didn't like a class D amp, perfectly fine. but what does that have to do with them being digital? and what does the perception of the general public have to do with this discussion? not exactly hard facts.
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