Sound Quality Vs. Measurements - Page 791 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29th December 2012, 10:09 PM   #7901
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
Sin Bin
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
D,

Burmester 948 power conditioner , talk to me.....

Burmester Audio Systeme GmbH | 948 Power Conditioner | Art For The Ear

6moons audio reviews: Chikuma, Gryphon Audio & Orb power bars
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 06:42 AM   #7902
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Does anyone remember whether it was one of us here who tested all those constant current sources for long tailed pairs a while ago, or was it "imported"?

Nige, regarding the end of the world, I think we should demand our money back, because it was a complete dud. An angry letter to the Boss above might do it. Let's sue the Vatican, they claim to be His representatives down here!
__________________
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 11:30 AM   #7903
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
On the Burmester conditioner - just carefully read the sales blurb and you'll notice some oddities. First they say it doesn't limit the current, and in the next paragraph they speak of 10A filters? Gimme a break ...

Wayne, I've been making power line filters (not "conditioners", these are rather classic passive filters, with a few twists) for 11 years now and I'm here to tell you that there hasn't been a filter or "conditioner" ever made which did not eventually limit the current passing through it. The question is not "does it", the question is "when does it start".

The other side of the coin are the audophiles buying them. They seem to think that say 10A of current is not ufficent for a CD player. I know this looks like an overstatement, but believe me, things like that are commonplace. Some 90% of any sales deal I ever made was explaining that the power drawn by a CD player translates to some 150-250 mA, so yes, 10A REALLY is quite enough.

Not to start myself on this, the key problem with line devices really is the fact that they can limit the available current. Obviously, this will happen only with power amplifiers, the rest of the system is not likely to need more than 1 A of current all told.

The most obvious reason for this is insuffiecent component power capability within a device, or relatively early transforemer core saturation. These two account for say 99% of all cases, and there are probably a few oddities here and there.

The other reason is not so obvious. It is related to the ground potential within a filtering device, which is a variable. If the filter is based on shunting noise to the ground, then its own efficiency will vary with the ground potential variance, making its performance a moving target.

And lastly, a somewhat obvious problem which few seem to think about is how the devices are connected to a filter. Remember, line noise is a part of the power drawn by devices on line which has been returned back into the grid. If you use a single filtering element, no matter which, for all the devices attached to the filter, then you do rid them of line borne noise, but you do NOT rid them of their neighbor's returned line noise, which as a source is right next to it. The obvious solution - each socket/device should have its own power filter, which protects it from both line noise and the noise generated by its first neighbors inside the same system.

ESPECIALLY valid for tube audio, because here we have an added source of noise - thermal noise.

The very odd thing (I find) is that it's the professionals who should see the logic first and understand it fully seem to be those who object most to power line devices quite a priori. They need a demonstartion to hear it at work before they accept that such devices are a MUCH better solution to CLC power supplies, which serve only their device, but leave the rest untouched. That, of course, assumes the power line filter has been done as it should have been done, and that means a pitifully small group overall.

With a well made device, you will hear more spatial detail overall, and for some reason, especially front-to-back depth of the sound stage - beats me why this in particular, but there it is. You will hear less noise, and your devices will use 5...10% less power from the grid, obviously heating less than before.

So, where's the problem? Well, I stand by everything I said, but must warn you - to really know how any device, for any money, will actually work or not, the ONLY way is to try it out in your system. Mine will always work and I guarantee that, BUT its overall effects vary from just barely noticeable to literally unbelievable, and including some very well known names (e.g. Krell, Audio Research, etc). Which is why I have a "loaner", a filter I give the prospective customer to try out in his system by himself, without me even present. Then, if he feels it's worth the price, he can order his. There were cases when I, quite frankly, would not buy my own filter simply because the effects were too small for the price - rare, but it did happen a few times.

To sum up - whatever you look at, Wayne old buddy, make damn sure you try it out before you buy it, or you stand to waste a lot of perfectly good money. You, with your Zero Ohm speakers, of all people here, could benefit the most, but for that to be so, you need to hear it first.

Sorry for the text length, but as someone actively involved in the field, I am very sensitive of snake oil pedllers, which somehow seem to be the most numerous.
__________________
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 11:33 AM   #7904
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Oh yeah - Six Moons in my view isn't worth the power for the bytes it produces. They peddle fog, myth, magic and voodoo, it exists so the boss and his wife can have paid journeys to the locations of suckers paying for it, in vain belief that a review will improve their sales figures. It didn't, some local small manufacturers swallowed the bait, market impact absolute zero.
__________________
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 01:07 PM   #7905
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
line "conditioners" you say? this is the Nordost Thor, $3300.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (68.5 KB, 95 views)
File Type: jpg image2.jpg (67.1 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg image3.jpg (61.0 KB, 93 views)
File Type: jpg image4.jpg (63.5 KB, 94 views)
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 01:24 PM   #7906
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
If that's Thor, then mine would be Odin's daddy.
__________________
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 01:29 PM   #7907
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
any speculation about the "role" of the PHIHONG wall wart supply?
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 03:33 PM   #7908
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canoga Park, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
any speculation about the "role" of the PHIHONG wall wart supply?
Gotta get power for that Quantum Resonant Technology somewhere Note that the wall wart is connected with superduper wire too.

See Nordost Thor Power Distribution Center - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 06:28 PM   #7909
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
any speculation about the "role" of the PHIHONG wall wart supply?
What is that? A company? A product? A new type of whatever?

Frankly, I've never heard of "PHIHONG".

If that's some kind of wild new power supply, and if it's locked to the wall, by default I think it's more probably junk than anything else. Call me traditional, but a good power supply in my book has to have at least two decent, milk bottle sized capacitors, and I don't get to see that in wall warts.

A REALLY good power supply merits a separate case all of its own, as it needs to accommodate a heck of a lot of components, including a power line filter. It should be built in by default, not a wildly expensive extra. And it should be such as to both prevent garbage coming in and to stop any returns back to the grid from the device it powers.
__________________
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th December 2012, 06:34 PM   #7910
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
Gotta get power for that Quantum Resonant Technology somewhere Note that the wall wart is connected with superduper wire too.

See Nordost Thor Power Distribution Center - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
Another revelation, huh? Just connect it, as there's no music without it?

Gimme a break ...

Brad, don't let yourself fall victim to sales blurb. Tell me, when have you connected whatever into your system and lived to have a revelation? Perhaps better, perhaps even much better (depending on what replaced what), but for God's sake, a REVELATION?

People so flaunt big words for little things ...

I've been reading such revelatory comments since the mid 70ies for whatnot.
__________________
Per Aspera Ad Astra.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quality Control differences = variations in sound quality? KT Class D 3 4th June 2014 12:02 AM
Sound Card for Measurements Marik Solid State 2 2nd January 2012 08:59 PM
Sound Card Recommendations (For Audio Measurements) dchisholm Equipment & Tools 5 16th July 2011 09:40 AM
How to protect sound card during amp measurements? okapi Everything Else 13 2nd September 2008 03:06 PM
Sound cards - test and measurements jackinnj Everything Else 2 5th July 2003 03:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:21 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2