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Old 18th October 2012, 02:38 PM   #7461
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DVV . You know DIN 45500 was a good attempt at defining hi fi . My recent KT 88 SE has struggled to meet it . I was very happy to get there . 8 W and 1% which is nearly all second harmonic ( - 70 dB third ) .

60 to 10000 will be very acceptable ( good 78's ) . 20 to 15000 - 1 dB starts to be hi fi .

Interesting point . When my SE amp was under development it had the usual nice harmonics valve people favour . I could clearly hear the upper harmonics buzzing in the output transformer as power increased . More so than the music showing distrotion . Now I have mostly second harmonic the transformer sounds as pure as when little or no distortion ( I had it once ) . That has to be significant . I can hear 10 kHz clearly via the transformer metal .
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Old 18th October 2012, 07:01 PM   #7462
dvv is online now dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
DVV . You know DIN 45500 was a good attempt at defining hi fi . My recent KT 88 SE has struggled to meet it . I was very happy to get there . 8 W and 1% which is nearly all second harmonic ( - 70 dB third ) .

60 to 10000 will be very acceptable ( good 78's ) . 20 to 15000 - 1 dB starts to be hi fi .

Interesting point . When my SE amp was under development it had the usual nice harmonics valve people favour . I could clearly hear the upper harmonics buzzing in the output transformer as power increased . More so than the music showing distrotion . Now I have mostly second harmonic the transformer sounds as pure as when little or no distortion ( I had it once ) . That has to be significant . I can hear 10 kHz clearly via the transformer metal .
Yes, it was a good attempt, and if memory serves, it was the FIRST attempt of its kind, the IHF coming a year or two later.

Too bad the Germans so madly insisted on their system of input/output signals and connectors, never mind how good they were, they were NOT what the market wanted. Anyway, their DIN 3, 5 and more pins was actually a downsized derivative of professional XLR connectors, with them, there was no way under the sun that you could get L and R channels mixed up throughout the system.

But they favored extremely high impedance loads and low level voltage of their signals, and moreover, they failed to update it. So it got too old and too tired and simply had to go.
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Old 19th October 2012, 12:18 AM   #7463
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Who knows what that fancy surround sound numbers mean?

Like 5.1 means front channels (x2), rear channels (x2), front center (x1) plus subwoofer.

7.1 means right and left surround channels added (7 total) plus subwoofer.

But what 7.1+2 means?
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Old 19th October 2012, 12:50 AM   #7464
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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+2 means you paid twice as much .....
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Old 19th October 2012, 01:09 AM   #7465
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
+2 means you paid twice as much .....

I paid nothing yet. My friend sent me e-mail asking what do they mean.

Audio Codec Comparison Table | Hardware Secrets
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Old 19th October 2012, 01:48 AM   #7466
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They mean ordinary stereo in addition to HT channels.
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Old 19th October 2012, 03:16 AM   #7467
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Gosh!! The buyer is lucky to be able to get that these days ...

Frank
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Old 19th October 2012, 06:25 AM   #7468
dvv is online now dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Who knows what that fancy surround sound numbers mean?

Like 5.1 means front channels (x2), rear channels (x2), front center (x1) plus subwoofer.

7.1 means right and left surround channels added (7 total) plus subwoofer.

But what 7.1+2 means?
Two underneath?

Wave, I'm not pulling your leg, I'm dead serious.

20+ years ago, an acquaintance of mine, a sound engineer, boss of the biggest hall (2,400 people) in the country, had me translate his concept of multichannel sound at home. He then sent it to AES and Dolby Labs. AES never answered (as far as I know), and Dolby Labs got in touch with him. After some weak negotiations, they nominally gave up, but a year or so later, his entire concept was presented by Dolby Labs, with very minor changes, WAY below the required 33% needed to bypass copyrights.

His concept called for what is 7.1 today, and further added 4 floor speakers. I asked him why that, and he told me that this was needed much more than commonly percieved. For example, rain falling - with the added floor speakers, he says you would almost instictively grab your umbrella. And since the frequency range of floor effects was rather limited, you didn't need some space age fancy speaker, all you needed are some decent units and you had to make very sure you got them well aligned in terms of volume and cohabitation with the rest of the system.

Of course, he never sued for intellectual rights because he was naive enough not to take any precuations before mailing anyone anythig, so he couldn't prove that it was his concept. Entirely his fault, I did offer him the services of my lawyer (also my best friend) who specializes in patent and copyrights, but like many people with a head full of ideas, he does poorly on listening to others.

I told him, but he obviously didn't hear me - to get into business, you need a good lawyer and a creative accountant. I heeded the advice and here I am, 11 years later, still at it and my company debt is equal to absolute zero. He hasn't budged an inch since those days.
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Old 19th October 2012, 09:24 AM   #7469
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Who knows what that fancy surround sound numbers mean?

Like 5.1 means front channels (x2), rear channels (x2), front center (x1) plus subwoofer.

7.1 means right and left surround channels added (7 total) plus subwoofer.

But what 7.1+2 means?

I know what it means . Sounds nothing like real life . Can be fun . Mostly annoying . Problem is there was no real understanding of producing a vortex of sound . In a storm we would hear and feel it . With this system the sound jumps from here to there . Forgive me if the technical side has accounted for it . Michale Gerzon was so insistent about this defect that someone might have listened . My ears say it isn't solved . This type of sound is like the two colour , colour films ( circa 1920 ) . Very impressive how it fools the eye . Nothing like the 3 colour version .

Funny maths . Did anyone notice Pi is nearly the cube root of 31 ( about 0.02% out ) . 355/113 was a Clive Sinclair version given with his calculators . I found remembering 3.1415927 easier . The kids do not learn logarithms now . I would be lost without them . I think the maths required for our work is usually a gifted 13 year old level .
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Old 19th October 2012, 12:01 PM   #7470
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
Funny maths . Did anyone notice Pi is nearly the cube root of 31 ( about 0.02% out ) . 355/113 was a Clive Sinclair version given with his calculators . I found remembering 3.1415927 easier . The kids do not learn logarithms now . I would be lost without them . I think the maths required for our work is usually a gifted 13 year old level .
facts I didn't know.
cube root 31, error <0.0068%
355/113, error <0.000009%
3.1415927, error <0.000002%

error result from Win7 calculator.

Looks like remembering 3.1415927 is good enough for most calculations using Pi.

BTW, What is the asci code for Pi? alt+0xxx?
Another BTW, Napier was brilliant. It's the addition and/or subtraction of logs that make it so powerful and yet so easy to manipulate.
I attended a few courses at Napier University (Edinburgh) when it was still a college.
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Last edited by AndrewT; 19th October 2012 at 12:03 PM.
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