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Old 1st September 2012, 01:58 PM   #7051
jned is offline jned  United States
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What perked my ears was when I was given free tickets to the Philadelphia Harmonics playing at Great-woods MA, when they started Ravel Bolero, I paid attention! I actually ran to my assigned seat, which sort of perked the musicians attention, and ever since, I have never heard anything so wonderful out of any speaker as I did that day!

Tweak all you want, Live is what you strive for, that is what I do, and that is fun!

I like experimenting with the quality of the power, ripple bleed is noticeable, a DC bank would be nice, but out of reality for most. Just never try Gates Cyclon Cells! Poof! They bite!
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Old 1st September 2012, 04:32 PM   #7052
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jned View Post
What perked my ears was when I was given free tickets to the Philadelphia Harmonics playing at Great-woods MA, when they started Ravel Bolero, I paid attention! I actually ran to my assigned seat, which sort of perked the musicians attention, and ever since, I have never heard anything so wonderful out of any speaker as I did that day!

Tweak all you want, Live is what you strive for, that is what I do, and that is fun!
Disney Hall here is, truly, spectacularly good, especially in the best seats (not on the floor), and the LA Phil, particularly under Salonen, has become a truly world-class orchestra. I had two friends, often with spare tickets, last season. What great good fortune!

Hearing, for example, Also Sprach Zarathustra in Disney with the LA Phil made me very conscious of how remarkably different a piece it was when heard in a good hall, and though I live happily with two-channel, how much is lost in an attempt to reproduce the live experience.

Based on most film scores in 5.1/7.1 I was tempted to disparage multichannel. Not any more, although there is a dearth of software and system setup is a huge challenge.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 08:13 AM   #7053
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Obviously, there's live, and there's everything else.

I never subscribed to the idea of having live equivalent at home, just to the idea that what I hear at home is good enough to listen to and enjoy for hours on end.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 12:03 PM   #7054
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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What I aim for in home listening is to be able to run the system at a volume level which produces an audible intensity that subjectively is equivalent or similar to that experienced live. Which is not to say that I want that all the time, the other half would violently object for a start!! And she already has, quite a bit! Plus, you would be emotionally exhausted after a long stretch ...

Now, it's easy to get a system to run loud, just wind up the volume, but that's not the same thing as intensity of sound, normally. The trick is to have high SPLs produced as cleanly as one gets from live music ... that pulls the trigger in your brain that says, "This is just like the real thing!" ...

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 2nd September 2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 12:46 PM   #7055
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Someone said hi fi is about the moment in time also . Also said that the Decca 1959 recording of Peter Grimes is the definitive lesson for recording engineers . The boss of Decca spent big money to record Britten .

Feature - Benjamin Britten conducts the first recording of his masterpiece, Peter Grimes - Gramophone Archive
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Old 2nd September 2012, 01:10 PM   #7056
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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If I close my eyes, can I believe? Of course it depends on the music. A lot of live music I would never tolerate in my house. I have walked out of too many concerts as the sound was so bad. My dream is someday, I will hear a recording of a single classical guitar that sounds like someone sitting ten feet from me. Maybe, but I am not as young as I was and the emphasis is now on portability not quality. I may never reach my dream but it is something to strive for. Instead, I head down to the coffee shop where Bruce pays when I can.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 01:45 PM   #7057
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Bruce who?

Lee?
Willis?
Springstein?

With his eyes closed, a man will believe much more than with his wide eyes open.

In my book, it has to sound pleasing with my eyes shut or open, no matter.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 02:18 PM   #7058
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
My dream is someday, I will hear a recording of a single classical guitar that sounds like someone sitting ten feet from me.
That's relatively straightforward to achieve with current equipment, provided that sufficient, focused effort and attention to detail is put into refining the setup ...

Frank
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Old 2nd September 2012, 04:59 PM   #7059
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Probably the best reproduction I ever heard of chamber music, in the sense of "being there", was at Keith O. Johnson's house many years ago, when he lived in the San Fernando Valley. A mutual friend wanted me to meet him so I could see what might happen to me if I kept up my obsessive ways, KOJ being about ten years older than I. I was about 28 then.

The playback was of master tapes he'd recorded on his famous three-track machine long used for Reference Recordings in the pre-digital days. The tape heads and bias scheme were of his own design. All of the electronics of course were his. The power amplifiers were in the speakers ("Where they belong!" he said ). The signal cables to the speakers were 300 ohm twinlead and the peak voltages in the vicinity of 100V. All of this he was willing to disclose, but he wouldn't let me see a proprietary subwoofer, behind a curtain. All of the system was balanced from start to finish.

The remark I made after a cello began to play was that I had the distinct impression that were I to move forward and get closer in towards the sources, I'd look down to see rosin from the bowing depositing on my pantleg. Timbres, imaging... It was all there.

Keith remarked that the THD performance per se of his electronics were merely o.k., but I came to learn that one of the things he regarded as crucial was equality of slew rates (this is almost automatic with balanced mode).

When I went to pee and saw the lid off the toilet, I knew at once why. He'd simply been too busy, I couldn't tell how long, to get round to repairing the leaky flapper valve. I'd done something similarly for a while.
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Old 2nd September 2012, 05:41 PM   #7060
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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"Equality of slew rates" is an odd way of putting it. Could mean several things.

I can agree that if the preamp can do say 40 V/uS, it WOULD be desirable for the power amp to be able to do it as well, just so it doesn't become a bottleneck. But what will you do if you have an ultra fast preamp, capable of say 150 V/uS (never mind whether you actually need that much in real life)?

Or, if your power amp can do say 80 V/uS, while your preamp will do only say 40 V/uS?

But if we look at the real world slew rate figures, the ACTUAL rates we would need for a say full power 20 kHz signal from a 100 Watt amp into 8 Ohms, that's merely something like 7 or 8 V/uS. We go for 40 V/uS only to make sure that the amp will be able to follow virtually any real world signal thrown at it, and some argue that half that is more than enough.

If we assume that we have a full power signal at 20 kHz (which is MOST unlikely with real world music signal), and further assume that while we can't actually hear the overtones as such but can feel them one way or another so we need to double that to 40 kHz, that's still 14 V/uS.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a sworn slew rate lover, my own personal minimum goal is 80 V/uS just for the hell of it - more can't hurt - but in reality, I realize this is much more of a personal whim than real need.

Keith Johnson - isn't that the man who does like 1,000 V/uS in his MOSFET power amps?
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