Sound Quality Vs. Measurements - Page 7 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th December 2011, 03:58 AM   #61
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
I agree with both of you. When it is 'right' you 'know' it. While it happened to me several times over the many decades, one time was about 30 years ago at a CES and I heard a Wilson Audio WAMM playing a 'Ragtime piano' vinyl recording. Dave Wilson was there and I told him that it was the closest to 'real' sound that I had heard since my sojourn at the Institute for Advanced Musical Studies, a few years before. It was that amazing! Over the years, I have both liked and disliked the Wilson offerings, but that day will always stick out in my mind.

For years, I had a 'significant other' living with me. She had run her own hi end hi fi store called Natural Sound, and her ears are better than mine, at least they were. At the time, in the '80's, we could knock people's socks off, with our home sound reproduction. After the firestorm, I have never gotten back to that level, partly because I could not afford to replace everything that I lost, but also because it takes 'fine tuning' as well, and I am ill equipped to do that well enough.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 05:46 AM   #62
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
"Cherchez la femme, pardieu ! cherchez la femme !" (C) Dumas
__________________
The Devil is not so terrible as his math model is!
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 08:58 AM   #63
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Another thread pointed out that audiophiles' musical tastes are somewhat... conservative, shall we say. When one of them swears that a certain type of distortion sounds good, what exactly are we to make of it? I'm quite sure that Billie Holiday sounds even better played on an old radiogram than a mega-system, but I wouldn't want to waste valuable listening time using it for anything more 'dynamic'. Without 'testing' (subjectively listening to-) some equipment with all types of music, how can anyone state what sounds 'best'?
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 11:15 AM   #64
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by revboden View Post
hey tvrgeek,

I have been a FOH engineer for quite a while. One thing I have found is that women like a more muted upper midrange than men, the sensitivity of the female ear is designed to key in on a crying baby, thus sounds that excite this instinct tend to distract women. I would suggest you look into this range to find what she is targeting.

On a similar note, people like what they are used to. One of my close friends can't stand my reference system as he likes the frequency rolloff of a standard 4" single wizzer sony boom box drivers and the distortion that goes with it. Thus I concluded measuring what is technically "right" may be wrong if it's not what a persons brain has defined as right. Everyones perception is different.
True, but...
And to make matters worse, a gentleman I met who had done a lot of mastering work says a lot of recordings are a tad boosted in the 4K range. If it were so easy. I did play with that a tad with no luck. Depressing the region would only delay the onset. I will follow with a separate comment about my theory of environmental learning.

I see several additional comments on how low the distortion in modern amps AS WE CAN MEASURE IT is. Absolutely agree. My entire comment is that there is something else we do not understand and are not measuring. There are a tremendoudus number of factors that do not contribute to steady state distortion figures that have been addressed. Just ask Mr. Curl. There is another one lurking out there. I have a hunch it is something aggravated by the complexity and dynamics of some musical instruments. Trumpets produce unbelievable inter-modulation and phase artifacts compared to a stringed instrument. They are also quite powerful. Hence my suspicion it is a dynamic issue.

The only simple dividing line I have is I know of no really cheap lo-fi amp that will pass. Only amps that are at the top of mid-fi and up can pass. All are designed by very smart people who if discover what this last issue is, would jump all over it. This is the price range I can play in. If I could afford to go buy all new uber-over the top, billet copper case whatever, I probably would have no complaints and even if they did fail, one's ego would probably not admit it. Human nature makes the world fun. I would not mind if someone just dropped off a spare Naim they had lying around.

My most next test, as soon as the parts get here, is a simple replacement of all the electrolytics in my DH 120. No "magic" caps, just modern low ESR and the fact that they are new as we all I hope know electrolytic degrade as they dry out and just about all of them are seriously trashed in about 7 years normal life. Much shorter if it was stored in an attic. This is the amp I use on my workbench for my real hobby, speakers. Basically a very good amp, easy to work on, and I paid almost nothing for it. In my wife's listening test, it was about mid-pack.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 11:21 AM   #65
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
THeory on environmental learning:
All out ears are different. All or what clues convince us what is pleasing varies. We know this. We can easily demonstrate that very small differences in linear distortion can be heard in blind A-B testing. I contend it does not matter that much. Our brains "learn" an environment, and as long as what we see does not confuse us too much, we will build in a subconscious correction filter. This is why when I go from room to room in my house ( 5 stereo systems) I do not hear big changes in character. I did when I set each one up. If you were to come over, you would probably detect my guest tool is a but light in the 80 Hz region, and my bedroom is a bit mid heavy and so on. Of course, big problems, even narrow band humps do sound bad. My theory. Your mileage may vary.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 02:38 PM   #66
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Have to admit, the one demo of Wilsons I heard did not have the same effect on me. Mine came much earlier with a studio half-track recording of a solo upright bass played back on a Revox through Levinsons into the first generation B&W 801. It actually sounded real. Probably the only reproduction I have ever heard as real.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 02:53 PM   #67
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by revboden View Post
On a similar note, people like what they are used to. One of my close friends can't stand my reference system as he likes the frequency rolloff of a standard 4" single wizzer sony boom box drivers and the distortion that goes with it. Thus I concluded measuring what is technically "right" may be wrong if it's not what a persons brain has defined as right. Everyones perception is different.
I didn't know if there exist anybody who likes the frequency roll-off and distortion of a 4" boombox driver

Anyhow, 4" boombox speakers are usually crossoverless, hence very responsive and sonically can be more enjoyable than many flat, LR-4 high end speakers with notch filters here and there.

Everything can be random and subjective to a group of people, but many things can be in order and objective to another group of people
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 03:35 PM   #68
Cassiel is offline Cassiel  Libya
diyAudio Member
 
Cassiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Madrid
No more God, Soul or Self... I believe now in the wisdom of machines. I'm calibrating, oh mamma, I'm calibrating this one.

* Satire
__________________
Hobby-Horse
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 03:43 PM   #69
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: UK
Quote:
No more God, Soul or Self...
Just looking at an amplifier schematic. Typically, where are the God and soul bits? Can they be upgraded to audiophile quality?
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th December 2011, 04:01 PM   #70
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
Just looking at an amplifier schematic. Typically, where are the God and soul bits? Can they be upgraded to audiophile quality?
I think they are in the unidirectional cryogenic AC cables. The easiest upgrade path is to take whatever is at the hardware store, add two zeros to the price, and repackage it as audio quality. Don't forget the foil triangles, natural wood brick, and Fibonacci sequence stranding. It is only a guess as I am an atheist so the God bits probably deserted me.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quality Control differences = variations in sound quality? KT Class D 3 4th June 2014 12:02 AM
Sound Card for Measurements Marik Solid State 2 2nd January 2012 08:59 PM
Sound Card Recommendations (For Audio Measurements) dchisholm Equipment & Tools 5 16th July 2011 09:40 AM
How to protect sound card during amp measurements? okapi Everything Else 13 2nd September 2008 03:06 PM
Sound cards - test and measurements jackinnj Everything Else 2 5th July 2003 03:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:50 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2