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Old 21st July 2012, 10:31 PM   #6831
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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OK, I will post spectra for VTL and goldmund for comparison ...good choices SS vs Tooobie !!
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Old 21st July 2012, 10:38 PM   #6832
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OK, I will post spectra for VTL and goldmund for comparison ...good choices SS vs Tooobie !!
I did not choose. I said that it is not enough to judge.
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Old 21st July 2012, 11:27 PM   #6833
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Relax I'm going to get you all the data you could ever use ...

Goldmund ...

Fig.1 Goldmund Mimesis 8, spectrum of 50Hz sinewave, DC–1kHz, at 72W into 4 ohms.
Fig.2 Goldmund Mimesis 8, 1kHz waveform at 100W into 8 ohms (top); distortion and noise waveform with fundamental notched out (bottom, not to scale), 0.007%.
Fig.3 Goldmund Mimesis 8, HF intermodulation spectrum, DC–22kHz, 19+20kHz at 20V p–p into 4 ohms (linear frequency scale).
Fig.4 Goldmund Mimesis 8, distortion vs output power into (from bottom to top at 10W): 8 ohms, 4 ohms, and 2 ohms.
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File Type: jpg goldmund2.jpg (38.1 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg goldmund3.jpg (26.3 KB, 89 views)
File Type: jpg goldmund6.jpg (40.0 KB, 91 views)
File Type: jpg GULDMUND1.jpg (49.9 KB, 92 views)

Last edited by a.wayne; 21st July 2012 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 12:05 PM   #6834
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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OK, I will post spectra for VTL and goldmund for comparison ...good choices SS vs Tooobie !!
What ever happened to VTL? They were big for a while. Not as "tube" as CJ at the time.

I remember when Klipsh was still with us saying "what the world needs is a good 10W amp", so David built one. The K-horn still sounded like a K-horn. Oh well.
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Old 22nd July 2012, 01:42 PM   #6835
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Relax I'm going to get you all the data you could ever use ...

Goldmund ...

Fig.1 Goldmund Mimesis 8, spectrum of 50Hz sinewave, DC–1kHz, at 72W into 4 ohms.
Fig.2 Goldmund Mimesis 8, 1kHz waveform at 100W into 8 ohms (top); distortion and noise waveform with fundamental notched out (bottom, not to scale), 0.007%.
Fig.3 Goldmund Mimesis 8, HF intermodulation spectrum, DC–22kHz, 19+20kHz at 20V p–p into 4 ohms (linear frequency scale).
Fig.4 Goldmund Mimesis 8, distortion vs output power into (from bottom to top at 10W): 8 ohms, 4 ohms, and 2 ohms.
That fig 3 is misleading as the difference freq falls exactly on the Y-axis line and cannot be seen clearly. It LOOKS like -45dB but that's just eyeballing it.

jan didden
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Old 22nd July 2012, 01:51 PM   #6836
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Could say the same about Fig 4, below 1W, the lines will not be as flat.

Speaking of a uncommonly low 8-4 ohm distortion crossing, Schäfer&Rompf =>
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Old 22nd July 2012, 02:06 PM   #6837
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
What ever happened to VTL? They were big for a while. Not as "tube" as CJ at the time.

I remember when Klipsh was still with us saying "what the world needs is a good 10W amp", so David built one. The K-horn still sounded like a K-horn. Oh well.
VTL is still around , i saw Luke Manley last year and he is stil at it... !!!
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Old 22nd July 2012, 02:09 PM   #6838
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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That fig 3 is misleading as the difference freq falls exactly on the Y-axis line and cannot be seen clearly. It LOOKS like -45dB but that's just eyeballing it.

jan didden
That's all I got , next up VTL .....
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Old 23rd July 2012, 09:43 AM   #6839
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Recently I have been experimenting with various class A amplifiers to see where they are similar and where they differ . The similarities are greater than they should be as tube versions are very different in how feedback can be used . I conclude that whilst satisfactory for general enjoyment digital sources are not good enough to truly hear what I measure . Vinyl seems a crazy better source . Ideally the last part of my quest would be a magnetic amplifier . On paper it could be a winner . The problem is I will end up listening to it's above one watt performance mostly where it will be the least good if respecting how we understand measurements . I am probably wrong about this . Instinct says I am not . I was expecting better linearity below one watt would make up for lost information , seemingly not . As DVV said what should we expect from 4 bits as it often is ? In the ideal world everything would be recorded on an advanced analogue system which can be reformatted in digital for connivance . To make it attractive it would have to be easier to use than digital which was often true in the past . 100 db dynamic range 1 Hz to 40 kHz - 1 dB or better . Distortion 1 % at + 10 dB with 20 dB absolute headroom . Perhaps if we bought a CD we might pay $50 to have it analogue for special things . I have no idea how it stored as analogue .
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Old 23rd July 2012, 11:52 AM   #6840
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The trouble is, there seems to be no ground zero point except for our own ears - and that's one hell of a "zero point".

Take digital recorded material. Sometimes we blame the software (CD, LP) without even realizing that it0's actually our hardware which is to be balmed, not the software. Take the same disc and replay it elsewhere and it may well provide a far better signal than we even hoped for. Quite simply, one CD player may appear to be inferior to another on typical music progarmme, but on occasion, it can outplay the nominally better one with some recordings.

I still think the most lifelike form of recording is a high speed tape recording bar none. The quality and sheer quantity of musical detail surpasses anything and everything else.

In case od CDs, it's as if we benefit from sort of slowing it down from typical digital conversion via a tape to listening level. I often wonder why so many CDs sound better when first recorded on analog tape and then played back. A very odd situation.

This is further reinforced by the simple fact that my Aussie real time DAC, using 8 parallel Philips DACs (1543), usually sound the pants off much more expensive and exalted devices, when this should not happen in theory. While the 1543 DAC is hardly known as one of Philips' best, it does have one trait which sets it apart - its supply voltage is about 2 V above most others, thus giving it a little extra headroom. Not to even mention the much simpler signal path.
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