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Old 20th July 2012, 01:45 AM   #6811
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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The reproduction of music via electronic playback is part art , part science . Some apply art /science , others science / art ...

The answer ..?
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Old 20th July 2012, 02:10 AM   #6812
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I was at the places where the engineers knew EVERYTHING.
That is where i heard really bad sound.
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Old 20th July 2012, 02:41 AM   #6813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
Wavebourn, what do you think about this......
I don't know, I don't have such experience. I even designed a "harmonizer" with a knob to add tube distortions, but nobody likes it. It is definitely a myth created by people who believed in THD numbers of Japanese amps, in order to explain why some people did not like them. It is very simple, to believe that others are wrong, instead of questioning own beliefs.
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Old 20th July 2012, 02:47 AM   #6814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
The reproduction of music via electronic playback is part art , part science . Some apply art /science , others science / art ...

The answer ..?
The art is to apply science in order to minimize more audible distortions first.
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Old 20th July 2012, 03:00 AM   #6815
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
I was at the places where the engineers knew EVERYTHING.
That is where i heard really bad sound.
Ahhh , no Art .....
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Old 20th July 2012, 03:31 AM   #6816
popilin is offline popilin  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
The art is to apply science in order to minimize more audible distortions first.
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Old 20th July 2012, 04:02 AM   #6817
benb is offline benb  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
I don't know, I don't have such experience. I even designed a "harmonizer" with a knob to add tube distortions, but nobody likes it.
...
Maybe you used the wrong active elements, and/or marketed it to the wrong people? Isn't the Aphex Aural Exciter all solid-state?
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Old 20th July 2012, 05:30 AM   #6818
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The original Aphex was tubes. I knew the inventor.
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Old 20th July 2012, 06:01 AM   #6819
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Originally Posted by benb View Post
Maybe you used the wrong active elements, and/or marketed it to the wrong people? Isn't the Aphex Aural Exciter all solid-state?
I used exactly what the "Tube Sound" myth is about: a vacuum tube.

The result is, when "tube sound" control is available nobody likes it. But this fact can't disprove the myth: people who want to believe in the myth claim that "the wrong tube is used", or "used wrongly", and so on, despite the device adds what they believe tube amps add: low order distortions.
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Old 20th July 2012, 07:10 AM   #6820
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Wave, sit back and try to remember in the next say 5 minutes, all of the myth, magic and voodoo going on in audio in general. Then tell me - why are you surprised?

This hobby seems to be a magnet for spin doctors, voodoo witches and spinners, in all honesty, I can think of no other area with such popularity to even compete with it. Once the intangible enters the discussion, as in art and audio, things we don't (yet) know how to measure so it reflects reality reasonably well, we are open to any lunatic with an agenda.

ANYONE can claim this is so and so, and when asked to prove it, all he has to say is that he hears it that way. You try proving that he's a liar. As a result, you have people with access to magazines who are free to promote their own ideas even if they are way off, justifying it by simply saying that's the way he hears it.

The worst of it is, they could be at least partly right. For example, over the years I have established that Mr Alvin Gold (UK reviewer, Hi-Fi Choice at al.) and I seem to have a similar hearing; in most cases, I agree with his findings, and most of the time, the differences are in shades, not in the essence. And vice versa, Mr Ken Kessler and I are completely at odds, what he finds to be fantastic month in and month out I generally find to be not very interesting. Can I, on basis of that, say that Mr Gold is a "good" and Mr Kessler a "bad" reviewer?

And just to add some spice, there were a few occasions when a device was shown to produce rather bad distorion spectra, and yet it sounded good to me nevertheless, just as there were (many more) occasions when something shown to produce very little distortion sounded bland and uninteresting to me.

There is no absolute truth and suprises are guaranteed. In the mid 70ies, my next door neighbour purchased a German made Wega receiver, a typical German product of the day, all black, with rounded edges, very much the style of those times, which had a quasi complementary output stage using 2N3055. Its published specs were way behind their Japanese competitors, yet it sounded WAY better than most Pioneers, Kenwoods and Sansuis of the day.

And just when I thought that way a widlcard, a one-off, here come the Germans with an integrated amp from ASC, model V 5000, also with reasonable but completely unexciting spec sheet and excellent sound I never heard from any Japanese amp until that time. I'm still hunting for that one.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, even if nobody here seems to even remember a California company called Craig, here they come with a receiver (designed in the USA, manufactured in Japan, just like Marantz) which I remember to be the best receiver I ever heard, bar none, until that time to this day (receiver, mind you, not an amp). A freak purchase by a friend, a spec sheet about average for the day, yet outstanding sound.

Of course, you might not agree upon hearing them, but that's the way I heard them, and it was obviously sufficiently impressive to burn them in my mind to this day, 35+ years later.

We can evolve any method of measurement we like, precise as we like, but in the end, it's all down to ears. First the designer's, and then our own. If these two tastes correspond to each other, we have a great amp/receiver FOR ME. Who knows exactly how my brain (if I have one) correlates it all into one whole?
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