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Old 15th May 2012, 04:56 PM   #5501
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I have been researching a cheaper stepper used with AC in another thread we are doing . 9 . No one seems interested . I used to get paid for doing less !

Last edited by nigel pearson; 15th May 2012 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:22 PM   #5502
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I would like to give my Linn history.
I know Ivor T. very well, we were once good friends, I even came up to visit him in Glasgow and stayed a few days, back in 1976.
It was VERY difficult to get any real information about the Linn turntable from Ivor, even over drinks. But in visiting his factory, I learned a few things.
First, his father had the majority of the factory and he even made parts for Rolls Royce.
This gave Ivor an edge in having 'experience' with first class machining, and some of the equipment in his father's shop was 2 stories high. Very impressive.
His factory was a small offshoot, relatively speaking, of the big factory, at the time.
In his hallway I saw a number of partially finished turntables 'aging' before further machining was done. I know that I was impressed at the time. The biggest thing that Ivor would talk about was the 'single point bearing' that he used, virtually exclusively. He seemed to put a lot of time and effort into that bearing.
At the time, I had used a Linn for about 2 years. Before that I had a TD-150, and before that a Rek-o-cut Rondine (rumble-cut) we all called it. I had also used a German quality changer for a year or so, at the place I lived.
At the time I visited Ivor, I worked for Gale and they had a direct drive phase locked servo driven turntable, that was beautiful to behold, which I used while listening at the office. As I previously designed a phase locked servo driven capstan for Ampex, back in 1968, I thought that direct drive was the right way to go. However, Ivor scolded me about the difficulty of getting the motor garbage out and he made a good point. All else being equal, belt drive could give lower rumble. I asked him why he used such a weak AC motor, and he said it was deliberately 'weak' to reduce the vibration energy generated by the motor. That really 'hit' me, because my earlier Rondine turntable was VERY noisy due to rumble, and it had this relatively large Pabst motor driving it. Now I thought I understood why.
Direct comparison to the TD-150, one of which I still have today, is that the TD-150, while better and heavier built, than the original AR, was equally inferior to the LP-12 in mass, and execution, WHERE IT COUNTED.
I also asked Ivor, about why his turntable board and such was so light, almost cheesy. He told me that he was attempting to get the arm and the platter to move together in unison, so that the DIFFERENTIAL vibration between the turntable and the stylus tip would be minimum. This really 'hit' me because I recently had seen a BBC video program of how they used to micro-photograph with a movie camera (heavy vibration). They used the same principle to get the specimen vibrating in sync with the camera with a very similar arrangement. This makes sense.
Finally, whatever turntable you have, just 'ding' the side of the turntable platter with your fingernail. Does it go DING, or does it go DUNK? This is important. I bet that the Empire, like the Marantz (that I have) rang like a bell. Many others do too.
However, over the many years that I have used a Linn, I have found it one of the easiest turntables to just play a record, with reasonable quality. No air pumps, clamping, super static removal, etc. Just play, and this I like. And that is another story as to why the Linn is so successful.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:34 PM   #5503
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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I don't doubt that the Linn was a good turntable. The problem is that as in the 1960's nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM (whether that was the right answer in each case or not), so in the 1970's every UK mag seemed to tell its readers that they could solve all their problems by buying an LP12. Those with different tastes or smaller wallets were left feeling out in the cold. Ivor's eccentricity seemed to add some mystique; he could tell a good story and the journalists were hooked.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:37 PM   #5504
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Finally, whatever turntable you have, just 'ding' the side of the turntable platter with your fingernail. Does it go DING, or does it go DUNK? This is important. I bet that the Empire, like the Marantz (that I have) rang like a bell.
Nope, it was pretty dead. Likewise the AR, if and only if the two parts of the platter were assembled together. I would suspect that the lead-filled acrylic platter on my table is a bit deader than the Linn.

At least as important as the resonance is the mechanical impedance, one great attraction of weighted plastic platters.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:44 PM   #5505
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If you take a Linn or TD 150 platter off and tap it rings like a bell . On the turntable it stops ringing . That's clever . Thorens spoiled it by having points to clamp to a lathe .

At Linn it said in the toilets ( 1976 ) . " Remember young mothers have to use these facilities " . I was impressed by that . I also saw my first ever hard-drive computer and a submarine engine sump . Castle Milk was one of the most dangerous places in Britain then ( I was told ) . Linn was a special place . Ivor told me he owed everything to his staff and provided something in Castle Milk that was if you like a beacon of hope . Glasgow was a very broken place then . His admiration of his staff was I am sure part of Linn's success .

Ivor told me without hesitation the story of the turntable . He bought a direct drive and didn't like it . Dad would not make just 1 . It was 50 or nothing . First were sold as Ariston . 56 chassis or 78 in ( Lenco made ) plinth . Jack his father said to do a very special bearing . It is very special I can tell you . Surprisingly Dual can do equal and sometimes on cheap stuff . Dual is always a bit light weight .

Ivor was more proud of Isobariks if you ask me .

One of the nicest and most intellectual people I have known . He was a captain in an army before that I beleive ( decorated ? ) .

He also told me he refused an export order to the USSR . The Labour government was furious ( LP12 SME Quad Spendor if I remember correctly ) . Ivor said it would mean a years production when his story was just being told . I still tell my boss if it sounds better it is better . Now who taught me that ?

Last edited by nigel pearson; 15th May 2012 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:45 PM   #5506
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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With all due respect, John, the first and foremost reason why Linn is so successful is that the entire British press stood and stands behind it.

I do NOT dispute the fact that it is a good product, with some serious thinking built into it, and that it was and is way better than most out there, some costing more than it does.

But from British mags, you just have to conclude that there are a few so-so products out there and that there's Linn. All in a class of its own, and this is simply not true.

BF96 and Nigel are right, it has been blown out of all reasonable proportion. It has come to the point that no-one in Britain DARES disagree on Linn and Naim. You just have to take their word for it that there is no better for the money.

Well, they've just lost Naim to France's Focal, let's see how long Linn can hold out.

I've always held that Britain is the only country in the world which has an organized chaos - everybody and their dog have the exclusive rights to the best ever. In the wild days of audio, this did work, but soon fell victim to organization from Japan. The Brits could never find a way to cooperate, it had to be every man for himself. That means small series, and that ends up as overexpensive products. Meanwhile, Japan, Inc. was consolidating, so my Sony cassette deck has its mecahnical assembley from Alps - big series, cheaper unit, cheaper products.

And it's not just audio, this is everywhere in Britain. For example, when British Leyland was formed, did they do the logical thing and centralize engine manufacturing? Of course not, Rover made their, and Triumph made their 2 litre engine, Rover with 4 pots, Triumph with 6 pots. Instead of making their products cheaper to make without sacrificing their individual views on how it should be done, they simply added another layer of joint company costs on top of their own. They simply had to fail.

And this is crying shame of it. This is how Britain lost its auto and is now losing its audio industry. With them, we all also lose the individual talents of some very gifted people, now lost in globalism.

I still can't get over the loss of Triumph Motors cars - for a reason I cannot identify, I was really in love with some of their models, from TR4 and TR5, via the Spitfire, to the Stag. I miss them so much.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:51 PM   #5507
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Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
...

Dual is always a bit light weight .

...
That's true. For reasons which escape me, I never understood why Dual didn't offer as an option a different and more seriously made plinth, for exampe.

Out here, our first job was always to weight the plastic bottomed plinth down. Made a LOT of difference, 3 point floating suspension notwithstanding.
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Old 15th May 2012, 05:56 PM   #5508
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Was that the thing that prompted RCA to invent its infernal phono connector?
My understanding is that the infamous connectors were developed for a very cheap internal cabling system in TV sets. They were never intended for use as interfacing to the outside world, and never expected to have many plug-unplug cycles.

Brad
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Old 15th May 2012, 06:09 PM   #5509
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D V V you are right except the link below . It can be done . However I feel Japan showed John Bloor how .

Triumph Motorcycles

BTW Dual 4 point in my day not 3 .

Triumph website is a bit tragic if people will forgive .
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Old 15th May 2012, 06:11 PM   #5510
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