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Old 12th May 2012, 11:25 AM   #5381
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
You might have a point there. My audio "bible" was a book from the 1980 published by National Semiconductor, called the "Audio/Radio Handbook". A fantastic publication explaining in detail and maths how to designs whatnot, of course, based on NS op amps, but still general enough to be worth its weight in gold. Chapters are:

1) Introduction
2) Preamplifiers
3) AM, FM and FM Stereo
4) Power amplifiers
5) Floobydust (equalizers, electronic XOs, etc)

My original version is in tatters now, saying it was used is an exercise in understatement. I mentioned this as a suggestion to a fellow from the US. He hunted it down, thesedays it's published by someone else under licence from NS, and he bought two copies ($14.95 per copy), kept one as I suggested, and sent me the other one as a thank you gift. He didn't have to do that, but I am nevertheless extremely grateful.

In those days, there was no Internet and no PC, so we had to read, a bad habit I never shook off to this day, I still love to read. Reading makes you take your time and gives you time to ponder some things out, Internet is far too superficial for that.

In case anyone wants to follow up, its ISBN is:

ISBN 1-882580-35-4 51495
Yep , would love to know what I did with my original copy of the audio bible, lost track of a lot of stuff after college ...

As to software and sims , yes they are good tools , unfortunately Wave is correct too , you see we learnt the basics before getting software assistance , most of the x and y generation never did , so it's about sims and software for them , they lack the ability to analyze , as they never had to..

Before calculators we had to memorize formulas and tables , forward and back , problems were solved with a lot of heavy lifting , this is not necessary Today, they have lost the basics, common sense is not so common anymore ..

Common sense Basics + software analysis is where it's at , I'm very rarely impressed with any of these youngsters i hire today , exception being those coming out of the military ....
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Old 12th May 2012, 11:40 AM   #5382
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The blue bible. Good memories.
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Old 12th May 2012, 11:47 AM   #5383
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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This months Stereophile has an interview with Arnie Nudell , on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the biggest AO on the planet , Arnie is a solid 10.5 ..

As to high sensitivity speakers , we should first define before discussing , as its a constant moving target when in discussion , for accuracy and domestic sound reproduction I don't think anyone should set out to design low sensitivity or high sensitivity speakers , the design process and performance goal will dictate such.

IMO very high sensitivity speakers (98db/w/m) don't do well with micro dynamics , as in everything in life there is always a necessary balance , finding this balance will always mean giving up some sensitivity..
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Old 12th May 2012, 12:03 PM   #5384
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High efficiency speaker usually make best use of the magnetic circuit . A simple improvement is a magnet behind and in front of the cone . This naturally brings other problems . Often the ultimate limit of magnetic circuits is never thought of . The very fact a coil moves in a magnetic field describes an exponential linearity problem (or similar ) . As we all know that is best solved by keeping the movement small . Other factors apply . Stupid speakers like KEF / IMF seemed to ignore that . The BBC LS 3/5A was my favorite KEF . It was designed for mobile studios ( a truck ) .
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Old 12th May 2012, 12:04 PM   #5385
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
This months Stereophile has an interview with Arnie Nudell , on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the biggest AO on the planet , Arnie is a solid 10.5 ..

As to high sensitivity speakers , we should first define before discussing , as its a constant moving target when in discussion , for accuracy and domestic sound reproduction I don't think anyone should set out to design low sensitivity or high sensitivity speakers , the design process and performance goal will dictate such.

IMO very high sensitivity speakers (98db/w/m) don't do well with micro dynamics , as in everything in life there is always a necessary balance , finding this balance will always mean giving up some sensitivity..
Agreed.

Once you push whatever to its extreme, there will be a price to pay. Speakers are no different.

You're right in saying we should define the efficiency range. In my view 91...95 dB/2.83V/1w would efficient, above 95 dB I'd call super efficient and would be a little suspicious of them forever wondering where's the price tag.

Just a suggestion.

Also, I am VERY glad to note that the NS book was obviously so popular. It seems many of us had its tutoring as our initial stage.
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Old 12th May 2012, 12:06 PM   #5386
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I am suspicious of any statement beginning with "we all know". Regards
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Old 12th May 2012, 12:24 PM   #5387
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We do all know that I think ? It's very simple , the magnetic field is changing as the coil moves out . It is a non linear system . So many other things matter and I offered a fix . Speakers are usually SE if you think about it . I like SE amps , I suspect I wouldn't applaud the fix I offered . However KEF went too far .

For what it is worth I think the medium output Klipshe were better ( 98 dB / W ) . One English guy said to me the English have hi fi and Americans have Big Fi . He went on to say a 16 foot piano keyboard is Big Fi . I like both and think you can have both easily . Trouble is I like Big fi most . That's why Quad's are right for me , no choice then .

Last edited by nigel pearson; 12th May 2012 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 12th May 2012, 12:41 PM   #5388
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Loudspeakers are interesting, to be sure. One thing that DOES count with speaker efficiency, is improved magnetic path and magnet, which, like compression ratio in an automobile, gives you more efficiency, no matter what else you do. Unfortunately, really good magnetic assemblies, this includes the magnet and the steel cost REAL money, and are not the first choice of 'practical' designers.
Also, horns, which will make ANY loudspeaker much more efficient, do give improved 'internal clarity' because the speaker cone has to do so little to get so much sound output. One weakness of horns, unfortunately, is that it is almost impossible to make a full range one, therefore, a 2 or 3 way horn speaker having a stepped arrival time, normally, the K-horn being an excellent example of this.
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Old 12th May 2012, 12:55 PM   #5389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
We do all know that I think ? It's very simple , the magnetic field is changing as the coil moves out . It is a non linear system . So many other things matter and I offered a fix . Speakers are usually SE if you think about it . I like SE amps , I suspect I wouldn't applaud the fix I offered . However KEF went too far .
Nigel, I refuse to know that because it is not all that true in my opinion. Two things here. 1) There are some very good driver designs out there with massively overhung VC's and good magnetic motors that stay linear in a wide excursion area. 2) High efficiency = large cones, which bring their own set of problems. It is much more difficult to have a large cone operate like perfect piston than a smaller one, plus the way they beam sound is something which tends to reduce the optimum listening area. Everything is a trade off, and for in the living room, I prefer relatively low efficiency drivers with wide dispersion.

vac
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Old 12th May 2012, 01:09 PM   #5390
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel pearson View Post
High efficiency speaker usually make best use of the magnetic circuit . A simple improvement is a magnet behind and in front of the cone . This naturally brings other problems . Often the ultimate limit of magnetic circuits is never thought of . The very fact a coil moves in a magnetic field describes an exponential linearity problem (or similar ) . As we all know that is best solved by keeping the movement small . Other factors apply . Stupid speakers like KEF / IMF seemed to ignore that . The BBC LS 3/5A was my favorite KEF . It was designed for mobile studios ( a truck ) .
.

KEF/IMF speakers were indeed inefficient. This was to a great percent due to their x-overs. Their speaker units themselves were not that inefficient. And much of their inefficiency in turn was due to the cone mass & material, not to the magnetic circuit design.
I find it a bit streched for KEF designs to be called stupid. A lot of research and know how there.
Is it that you have something more specific in your mind?

George
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