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Old 8th May 2012, 06:50 PM   #5261
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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@Sy,

I like the way you capture handclaps and the audience, how are you miking the performer ..?
Southpaw Jones- The Last Remaining Beatle (2496 FLAC)

Harmonica fan ...
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Old 8th May 2012, 07:04 PM   #5262
SY is offline SY  United States
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The Southpaw cuts were recorded using a pair of Scott Wurcer's condensers spaced about 8" apart. More info in his Linear Audio article. The Lee Barber recording was done with a Blumlein pair of crossed ribbons running into a 1512-based preamp. Both were single point, no compression or limiting, no EQ. Very purist.
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Old 8th May 2012, 07:22 PM   #5263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
For everyone, let me put out something, that may seem a little bit of history, but important in the context of what is being discussed here.
Back, 40 years ago, the Grateful Dead had 2 analog tape recorders. One, used only on special occasion, such as making a future record, was the 16 track Ampex with 15 ips and 1/2 track, using 2" wide tape.
The other was a semi-professional Sony running at 7.5ips, 1/2 track, using 1/4" tape, that continuously recorded at every concert, and this became the tape library for the GD, and was produced in the 100's. Today, these 7.5ips recordings are often transcribed to CD and DVD with some success.
Why do these analog recordings, made under 'marginal' circumstances never thought to be seriously useful to the public, sound OK?
It is because it is the 1'st generation!
Even Nakamichi recorders could generate significant subjective results when used in a live recording situation.
So, I think that noting the 'subjective' quality of a first generation recording, does not prove that 'better' cannot be done.
I could not have said it better. Even one generation degrades SQ to a notable degree. Regards
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:15 PM   #5264
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Not possible , too many SY's and for some reason i never thought of you as being "rap" .. DVV and T maybe .. you , nah ... Link ... !!!!
Me? "Rap"?

Well, if we're down to insults, you've got big ears too.

Nah Wayne, you could almost say I'm the exact opposite. I am very much into melodic music, Irish especially (Enya is my lifeline, also Loreena McKennit), Scottish and British folk, pop and rock say 1965-1985, and I do a lot US country as well. Waylon Jennings and Johnny Cash in particular, but I am not adverse to others as well. Plus local pop and rock, of course, heck, I know half the performers personally.

I am particularly fond of the early US protest song, I was a kid when it came on, and in my case, never left. That means early Dylan, Barry McGuire, Joan Baez, Peter, Paul and Mary, The Kingston Trio, and - natch! - the Big Daddy of them all, Pete Seeger. And Shel Silverstein lately.

In fact, while all this may sound very compartmentalized, it's not really, I'll take any music that sounds good to me. Ennio Morricone included.
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:22 PM   #5265
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
The Southpaw cuts were recorded using a pair of Scott Wurcer's condensers spaced about 8" apart. More info in his Linear Audio article. The Lee Barber recording was done with a Blumlein pair of crossed ribbons running into a 1512-based preamp. Both were single point, no compression or limiting, no EQ. Very purist.
Not sure if i Prefer the ribbon sound, I'm erring towards it, although my preference maybe due to mike position and not the mic itself. On my desk tops , it sounds like the mike is maybe too close to the performer, I don't really hear the space, I'm going to give it a listen in the big rig later..

Quote:
Originally Posted by john dozier View Post
I could not have said it better. Even one generation degrades SQ to a notable degree. Regards
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:26 PM   #5266
SY is offline SY  United States
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For me, the ribbon does better capturing the space and for midrange tonality. The condensers are cleaner with a more extended top. Take your choice.

The mike positions were actually pretty similar, but clearly the polar patterns are quite different.
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:27 PM   #5267
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Me? "Rap"?

Well, if we're down to insults, you've got big ears too.

Nah Wayne, you could almost say I'm the exact opposite. I am very much into melodic music, Irish especially (Enya is my lifeline, also Loreena McKennit), Scottish and British folk, pop and rock say 1965-1985, and I do a lot US country as well. Waylon Jennings and Johnny Cash in particular, but I am not adverse to others as well. Plus local pop and rock, of course, heck, I know half the performers personally.

I am particularly fond of the early US protest song, I was a kid when it came on, and in my case, never left. That means early Dylan, Barry McGuire, Joan Baez, Peter, Paul and Mary, The Kingston Trio, and - natch! - the Big Daddy of them all, Pete Seeger. And Shel Silverstein lately.

In fact, while all this may sound very compartmentalized, it's not really, I'll take any music that sounds good to me. Ennio Morricone included.
My collection and taste runs the gamut, i do lean mostly to Jazz, although i have gone days just listening to classical and everything else in between...

I'm a big fan of Rudy van Gilder, try and get as much as his stuff as i can ...

Last edited by a.wayne; 8th May 2012 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:29 PM   #5268
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
For me, the ribbon does better capturing the space and for midrange tonality. The condensers are cleaner with a more extended top. Take your choice.

The mike positions were actually pretty similar, but clearly the polar patterns are quite different.
Yes it does, but it could also be your configuration , crossed on the Ribbon and L/R on the condensers , Yes..? The ribbon does sound more neutral , but i wasn't sure if it was the mics or the positioning ...


Now that you have clarified ...

Last edited by a.wayne; 8th May 2012 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:44 PM   #5269
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Default Bing Crosby

John . I got involved in transcribing some un-played recordings of the Bing Crosby radio show of about 1941 . I oftten wondered what the quality of the first Ampex recorders was like ? I suspect they were the German magneto-phones that Apex put into production circa 1948 . Bing didn't want to do separate radio shows in the US time zones ( live ) and bough into what would become Ampex . I am told a magneto-phone was being used in Berlin during the Nazi period . For some reason the sound was much better on a tape made on one session . Supposedly AC biasing was discovered by accident that day as they were near the worlds most powerful LW transmitter of 2 M watts at circa 200 kHz . I think it is myth , however it is interesting .

My question to John is have you ever heard any early tapes and what do you remember ? I think the early machines were BASF and AEG .

Point of information . Many ribbon mics in England it is said were made from surplus radar magnets ( Reslo ) . Stanley Kelly ( Kelly ribbon tweeter Decca ) offered to do hearing tests in about 1948 when condenser microphones came in . Kelly felt he could at last do reliable tests . Findings were 80% of people had some deafness . 97% people had perfect relative pitch . That is they could reproduce a tone just played to them within 0.1% . This is said to be the facility to learn speech . That was Stanley Kelly's parting piece for Hi Fi News . My friend John has many mikes . He uses ribbons often . He says they are not accurate however very musical . He voiced Brian Ferry on his early recordings .

Last edited by nigel pearson; 8th May 2012 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 8th May 2012, 08:48 PM   #5270
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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if 1st gen analog tape masters are available then Plangent Processes can remove much of the mechanical tape motion stick/slip ect. variations that result in "FM" modulations/IMD products

http://www.plangentprocesses.com/
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