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Old 16th March 2012, 08:57 PM   #3551
SY is offline SY  United States
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Exactly right, John. Fortunately, the marketing is done by the people who pay you.

I note with amusement that Scott has (at least) four orders of magnitude more satisfied customers, so if you want to use that as a yardstick, you might learn a few things from him.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:01 PM   #3552
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IF I just made simple parts and NOT whole systems, I might just have even MORE satisfied customers.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:06 PM   #3553
jcx is online now jcx  United States
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why guess when the subject is well covered in depth on the web

Reed-Solomon Codes and CD Encoding

appears competent - any 2 single bit errors in a 24 byte block can be corrected, the blocks are spread out over frames with another error correcting code

due to the interleaving, levels of ecc, up to 3500 sequential lost bits from scratches of the physical media can be corrected

some CD drives give hardware flags for number of ecc corrections, level of the ecc error and finally when interpolation is used (basically never)

no engineering account I know of investigating the "issue", reports of looking at the ecc flags on drives playing CDs supports the idea that there are widespread "major problems" reading CDs
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:08 PM   #3554
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
IF I just made simple parts and NOT whole systems, I might just have even MORE satisfied customers.
I wish the parts were simple. They're not.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:13 PM   #3555
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They are simple to buy and add to other equipment, AND they typically cost 100 or more times less than one of my designs.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:25 PM   #3556
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Originally Posted by cbdb View Post
Yes music CDs have lousy error correction compared to data CDs but they still have very few if any uncorrectable errors (on a undamaged CD). And when ripped by good software to a HDD errors will be reread a number of times to give you even less of these errors. The place this goes south is when you burn a CD, the errors multiply and depend on the burner and blank CD.
Precisely!

The question now is - what if it is NOT ripped by "good software"?

How to explain that when I play on the same CD player the original factory copy, it plays just fine, as well as the player can do, but when I put on a copy, made on my PC, the treble socks it to me?

Never mind whether my PC is up to the job or not, the point is that the same copy flaunting all the treble, when played on my Yamaha CDX 993 player used as a transport, and on my external DAC, there is no treble excess? Because my DAC has no brickwall filters, no oversampling, and uses 8 parallel Philips DACs?

Again, never mind which is right or wrong, the key point here is - copies CAN sound different from the original, even assuming very special circumstances. I, and millions like myself, don't really care how and why, or who's to blame, we simply note the differences and, more often than not, do not like them.

To me, the mere statement that something is perfect in an imperfect world is, to be kind, ridiculous. It's childlishly naive.

There is no perfect amp, no perfect preamp, no perfect loudspeaker, no perfect PC - most here would agree, yet some would argue that digital technology as such is perfect.

Sorry folks, but it isn't. It's better than most others, no argument there, but it's NOT perfect. And just so you don't think I'm some kind of a Luddite, let me mention that during the last 25 years, I purchased 0% of LPs and 100% of CDs. I did, do, and will enjoy them even if they are not perfect. And some of the CDs are digital versions of mono analog tape recordings in God knows which forsaken room Pete Seeger recorded it - and to me, he's still THE Big Daddy of protest songs, even in mono.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:34 PM   #3557
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Trust your ears, DVV.
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:36 PM   #3558
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Originally Posted by janneman View Post
He doesn't trust his ears. If he would, he would have no problem doing a controlled test.

jan
Frankly, I don't give a FF about controlled tests by anyone. They mean exactly nothing to me because they are 100% irrelevant for me, in my room, and with my system.

If I want to find out how something sounds, I go out there and borrow a sample which has not been tweaked. I use it for no less than two weeks, and only then will I dare say that I KNOW how it sounds (to me). I have only one item in my possession which I did not audition per se, and that was gift, and I daresay a very generous one. It turned out that I not only liked it, I just loved it. Still do.

In case of my loudspeaker, it took us (my friend and myself) and a "jury" of around 20 people (not all at once, but in turn) to agree we had finally got it "voiced" just right all of six months, with at least three sessions every week. And frankly, I couldn't care less what somebody else thinks of it, because I'm happy with it.

There isn't a test in the world which cannot be rigged the way somebody wants it - may be hard, may be long, but it can be done. The best it can do is to produce a most probable finding, but some will still think differently. For any reasonable certainty, your statistical sample would have to be 1,024 people.

Anyone done such a test? And more importantly, did YOU agree with the general finding?
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:36 PM   #3559
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Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
I never trust my senses more than my tools (controlled tests included). Brain can play some funny tricks, especially when you WANT something to be true.
My problem is usually not hearing things that I want to hear, like controversial line conditioners. And this is often in the presence of people who say they can hear them. So of course the assumption is I don't hear very well.

However, when there is something obviously wrong I often hear it and diagnose it before a lot of people do. One case in point: a unit shipped for evaulation of a wireless linked subwoofer had a large latency that was uncompensated in the accompanying soundbar system. I said almost immediately, Something is terribly wrong with the integration of the sub and the rest of the system.

The other person presumed it was EQ. I was doubtful. He measured things acoustically, couldn't see much. Fiddled with the EQ. Didn't help. Finally the manufacturer of the wireless link is contacted. Given the part number.

"What are you doing with THAT??" That's a new multichannel module that is not released yet! It has a fifty millisecond latency! <I began to mock-pound my head against the wall at this point in the conference call>
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Old 16th March 2012, 09:39 PM   #3560
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
They are simple to buy and add to other equipment, AND they typically cost 100 or more times less than one of my designs.
Yes, agreed, they do represent first-rate engineering. That's why they're so wildly successful. Hard work for the designer to make easy work for the user.
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