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Old 14th March 2012, 11:05 PM   #3441
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
So some of you lot have spent your entire lives designing and building audio amplifiers..? But never actually designed one that you could actually say was good enough? I'm just trying to imagine a different field of engineering where someone would spend decades re-hashing a basic design without ever getting it to work properly!

(slightly tongue-in-cheek, but not completely!)
We sure as heck don't have a perfect speaker. How easy can it get? Just some wire, a dixie cup and a magnet, or so said Mr. Rice and Kellog. Was the DC-3 a perfect airplane? A Morgan Plus 4 the perfect car? Bic the perfect pen? AK-47 the perfect gun? Rhodes 19 the perfect daysailer? Well, maybe. Anchor Porter the perfect beer? Almost. We don't even have the perfect beer glass. Maybe you could point to a Corell dinner plate and say to yourself, what could I change to make it better?

On-Semi has not created the perfect transistor as far as I can tell. That leaves the esteemed gentlemen mentioned here with room to continue. What got me fascinated is what looks deceptively simple is really difficult to do very well. I am glad human nature drives some to exceed what is minimally acceptable.

I am also really a big fan of the industrial engineering art. Combining great function with great style. Eames chair, Jag E type, and I have to admin it, iPad. Sorry to say, I can't list any high end audio product in that list. Some are "very nice" where most are something to hide unless you are looking for bragging rights. I kind of liked the original Aragon preamp. B&O tried. Speakers are either just plain ugly or weird. Tanburg Fasetts fit into a few decors in the 70's, a pair on my desk right now, but would not fit in most rooms today. Worth a study. Maybe one of the first molded speakers. Very listenable and made of quite ordinary drivers. Good design.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:14 PM   #3442
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John is correct about Studer. After the all tube C37, it was all downhill. Regards
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:16 PM   #3443
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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$99 Chinese amp. Any questions?
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:17 PM   #3444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
We sure as heck don't have a perfect speaker.
I'm building one, but of course it will not be very loud. More like a Whisper from Nirvana.
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Old 14th March 2012, 11:41 PM   #3445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
We sure as heck don't have a perfect speaker. How easy can it get?
Very hard compared to the electronics (which are quite easy). Marketing and product differentiation are the challenge in electronics. Speakers are a whole different issue.
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Old 15th March 2012, 12:20 AM   #3446
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
I've been buying Avago and Lumex. Very consistent.
Confirm Avago (which was HP). They have kept the "standard red" as a product, which afaik is the best match to a silicon Vbe tempco. They are very quiet.

LED "lifetime" used to just be about the light output decline. I'm sad to hear that you can make them shoddily enough to have them degrade in days!

I think I've already told the story somewhere within diyaudio about my object lesson in signing up for a change before the actual specification was revealed, and then having to do some fancy design to come in at the budget or near. I wound up using an LED (an HP part) to bias a common-base stage level shifter. Everything went well until they bent the leads before wave solder (which they did not have to do, as there were holes on the PCB into which they fit perfectly).
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Old 15th March 2012, 12:21 AM   #3447
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Everything is difficult, electronics, speakers, sources, connecting wires, everything!
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Old 15th March 2012, 12:23 AM   #3448
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
We sure as heck don't have a perfect speaker. How easy can it get? Just some wire, a dixie cup and a magnet, or so said Mr. Rice and Kellog. Was the DC-3 a perfect airplane? A Morgan Plus 4 the perfect car? Bic the perfect pen? AK-47 the perfect gun? Rhodes 19 the perfect daysailer? Well, maybe. Anchor Porter the perfect beer? Almost. We don't even have the perfect beer glass. Maybe you could point to a Corell dinner plate and say to yourself, what could I change to make it better?

On-Semi has not created the perfect transistor as far as I can tell. That leaves the esteemed gentlemen mentioned here with room to continue. What got me fascinated is what looks deceptively simple is really difficult to do very well. I am glad human nature drives some to exceed what is minimally acceptable.

I am also really a big fan of the industrial engineering art. Combining great function with great style. Eames chair, Jag E type, and I have to admin it, iPad. Sorry to say, I can't list any high end audio product in that list. Some are "very nice" where most are something to hide unless you are looking for bragging rights. I kind of liked the original Aragon preamp. B&O tried. Speakers are either just plain ugly or weird. Tanburg Fasetts fit into a few decors in the 70's, a pair on my desk right now, but would not fit in most rooms today. Worth a study. Maybe one of the first molded speakers. Very listenable and made of quite ordinary drivers. Good design.
It used to be conjectured that audio quality of recordings and musical performance quality were anticorrelated. I wonder if there is a comparable inverse relationship effect for audio equipment ID and sound quality?
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Old 15th March 2012, 12:30 AM   #3449
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At least tvr, you are LEARNING how difficult it is to make virtually 'perfect' electronics. You are fortunate that your wife keeps you on track, because your mind and your measurements would certainly throw you off.
With SY, he believes that the differences are an illusion, and he can PROVE this to both you and your wife, if you subject yourselves to his testing. I, however, tried this sort of 'testing' myself about 1/3 century ago, and came up with a conclusion: Either I am crazy, or the test is flawed in a serious way. Therefore I ignore ABX type double blind tests, and their near relatives. Seems to work for me! Holman and Spigel went the other way and dropped out of hi fi design. That was their choice, after subjecting themselves to ABX testing. What do you want to do?
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Old 15th March 2012, 12:34 AM   #3450
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Very hard. That's the point. I even built one once with no moving parts. It used the corona effect. It actually made sound, along with a lot of ozone.

Besides just being hard, they are only one part of a system including the room and the amp. Part of why the amp is so hard as it has to be built without knowing the speaker.
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