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Old 13th March 2012, 03:53 PM   #3341
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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So they skimped on the transformers too ....
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Old 13th March 2012, 03:58 PM   #3342
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Errrr...... Constant voltage ....
Not sure what you are referring to. That the output power for the same THD is a little lower (0.5dB) into 4 Ohm (one must read the specifications) should not come as surprise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
So they skimped on the transformers too ....
Really? There are two pretty big ones in there.

Why don't you actually have a close look at what these really where, instead of trying to find some reason to put them down?

Ciao T
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:00 PM   #3343
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
I believe it was one more attempt to "revive" the Citation name that Andy Hefley was working on
Citation XX/XXP was introduced in 1980. There where only a few made and probably more sold in Japan than in the US. Design was in part Matti Ottala. I read somewhere that the thick film hybrid driver stage came directly from Finland for HK...

Ciao T

Last edited by ThorstenL; 13th March 2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:07 PM   #3344
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Hi,



Not sure what you are referring to. That the output power for the same THD is a little lower (0.5dB) into 4 Ohm (one must read the specifications) should not come as surprise.



Really? There are two pretty big ones in there.

Why don't you actually have a close look at what these really where, instead of trying to find some reason to put them down?

Ciao T
The amp does not double down going form 8-4 ohm T, so what's missing? Better yet what am I missing ...

I would start with the power supply ......No ?
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:12 PM   #3345
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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I will take a closer look, better yet I will try and find one ....
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:15 PM   #3346
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Hey look it has an 3 position bias selector, great design.......
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:17 PM   #3347
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
The amp does not double down going form 8-4 ohm T, so what's missing?
So?

But anyway, you do not know that.

What you know is that FOR A RATED 0.1% THD limit the 4 Ohm output is 0.5dB less than double the power at 8 Ohm. And the output current is rated at 200A for short bursts (that basically takes out the "current limiting" part).

As pretty much any Amplifier increases HD if the load is lowered you may find it difficult to show me ANY Amplifier that PRECISELY doubles output power from 8 to 4 Ohm with the same 0.1% THD limit (I'm looking forward to your candidates).

As to the power supply, why not make sure what is fitted before you claim "they skimped on this or that"? You know, do some basic due diligence?

Finally, could you kindly direct me to actual evidence that in order to offer good sound an amplifier must precisely double power into 4 Ohm with no rise in THD?

Ciao T
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:19 PM   #3348
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
I will take a closer look, better yet I will try and find one ....
They where made 32 years ago, there are parts that cannot be replaced and the numbers made where small. In 1980 the price 1.5 Million Yen.

Your best bet may be HiFido - Buy your used audio equipments .

Good luck.

Ciao T

Last edited by ThorstenL; 13th March 2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:26 PM   #3349
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Ok,

From audio karma, citation XX could not drive ML Cls , typical of amplifiers that don't double down , same as my VK500 of past . I have always stayed away from amplifiers that dont double down .

I get what you are saying about matching thd ratings and all amplifiers increase when faced with lower impedance, it's the characteristic of the curve is what counts, well from observation.
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:37 PM   #3350
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
From audio karma, citation XX could not drive ML Cls , typical of amplifiers that don't double down , same as my VK500 of past . I have always stayed away from amplifiers that dont double down .
I fail to understand what "double down" has to with anything.

Sure, you can find amplifier/speaker combinations that do not work. It is possible that the protection circuitry on the Citation XX is set too conservative (remember, it is a late 1970's design with late 70's transistors), maybe the very low impedance at high frequencies for these speakers caused problems.

To be honest, if someone uses Apogee ribbons or the monster Electrostats (whoever makes them) most amplifers may polietly decline. I would for these contraptions not look at the 4 Ohm rating, but at the 1 Ohm one.

Common foldback current limiters will dramatically decrease the current at which they engage with impedances below a certain point (basically they interpret "short" instead of "low impedance").

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
I get what you are saying about matching thd ratings and all amplifiers increase when faced with lower impedance, it's the characteristic of the curve is what counts, well from observation.
I tend to limit myself to dynamic speakers and usually with a sensible efficiency/impedance profile, so I just don't get these problems...

Ciao T
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