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Old 12th March 2012, 06:01 PM   #3321
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
I would like to point out what the difference between 'high fidelity' and 'high end' is. They both have the same goal, although sometimes one might be in one camp or the other, and be either sonically wonderful or sort of lousy.
High End is mostly BUILD QUALITY and CIRCUIT SOPHISTICATION, based on a 'no holds barred' making of a specific brand of products. If this makes for a superior product sonically, then it is worth it. If not, then it is a failure, and perhaps a waste of money.
It is difficult to tell the difference without trying an individual component in ones hi fi system.
Early examples of 'High End' even before Mark and I came on the scene, were the Marantz 10 tuner, Marantz 9 amp (especially in triode operation) and the McIntosh 3500 power amplifier. These were 'all out' designs that were well built, as well. Examples of 'hi fi' at the time were the next generation of Marantz solid state components, SAE, Ampzilla, etc. These components did NOT meet the standards of a REALLY high quality amplifier or preamplifier when compared to the best tube designs, from the past, or from Audio Research at the time. Audio Research initially was 'hi fi' due to its construction and parts selection, but it has now moved to 'High End'.
So it is not just sound quality that separates 'High End' from 'High Fidelity', but build quality. You can have sonically superior in either mode, but usually 'High End' has the advantage of the best parts and construction, so all else being equal, it will prevail.
I can agree with this ....

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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
. At the time, Dynaco was going through the last of its big days, and James Bongiorno was busy desiging SAE gear, but I always felt SAE was more of a show than the Real Deal, although I should not complain, I had their model 5000 crackle and pop remover, and I must admit it worked as advertised. Later on, I heard two more units with the same mission, both from UK, and they could not compare, they were way behing the SAE.

McIntosh was going strong, as were some other companies of the day, like BGW, etc.
Only the Dyna 416 could be classified here and SAE never impressed at anytime, same as BGW....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
In terms of build quality, SAE was there, ohovering on the borderline, but was ultimately let down by savings in wrong places.

For example, their own declaration at the back of their model I think it was 2400 L (nominally 200W/8 Ohms) clearly stated: 40V into 8 Ohms, 28.3V into 4 Ohms. I wouldn't take that from a run-off-the-mill Japanese product, ler alone what wishes to be something higher up. It wasn't until Sumo that James got it right.
SAE was not hi-end, I remember taking one of Julius's offerings, his "Audire" line and destroying my friends much "bigger" SAE power amplifier(1980) the SAE had amplifier sound, weak too on the Acoustats ..
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:06 PM   #3322
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by bcarso View Post
You viewed the wrapper? Is that accessible on the USPTO site? Interesting!
Yes, wrappers are accessible through USPTO. I think they're way more interesting than the actual issued patents. The sneakier ones have a back and forth that seems to have no resolution, then there's an oral interview (not transcribed, alas) and suddenly the claims issue. I always wonder in cases like that if the oral interview consists of the applicant telling the examiner that he knows where the examiner's kids go to school and has a map of the route they take. Or photos of the examiner in compromising situations with hookers.
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:45 PM   #3323
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
Yes, wrappers are accessible through USPTO. I think they're way more interesting than the actual issued patents. The sneakier ones have a back and forth that seems to have no resolution, then there's an oral interview (not transcribed, alas) and suddenly the claims issue. I always wonder in cases like that if the oral interview consists of the applicant telling the examiner that he knows where the examiner's kids go to school and has a map of the route they take. Or photos of the examiner in compromising situations with hookers.
That's not implausible!
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:51 PM   #3324
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Or during oral interview could be said how revolutionary is the idea, how much money can it bring, and how lawyers with experience in defending such ideas will be needed.
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Old 12th March 2012, 06:55 PM   #3325
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What is missing here is Mid Fi, which is where SAE, solid state Marantz, HK (most solid state) etc. could be placed. Today 'High Fidelity' is separated into 'High End' and 'Mid Fi' primarily. If any of you would just look at the 'build quality' of the two, you would come to understand the potential difference.
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Old 12th March 2012, 08:16 PM   #3326
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Tvr, I found the PERFECT reference book for you on AMAZON!. 'THE SEMICONDUCTOR DATA BOOK' (HARDCOVER) Motorola 1970 for $1.97. Surely you can justify this! I have this book next to me, among many others, but this has just about everything you need to know, at the moment.
Odd, it did not come up when I searched yesterday. Came up today. On its way. Actually, I bought the "good" condition for $2.05
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Old 12th March 2012, 08:19 PM   #3327
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
The point is, it is no longer n production by Toshiba. Maybe a mainland clone that is nothing more than a defective 2222 inside.
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Old 12th March 2012, 08:36 PM   #3328
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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"Basically you are asking complex questions and they never have simple answers."

Guilty as charged. Fortunately the posters here are capable of the complex answers. Back to the charts, and waiting for books.
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Old 13th March 2012, 02:20 AM   #3329
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Tvr, this purchase of yours might be the best investment you have made recently, saving you time and keeping you from potential mistakes. You might actually learn a bit more of what 'real' designers know about devices, as well.
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Old 13th March 2012, 04:23 AM   #3330
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
The point is, it is no longer n production by Toshiba.
I don't know when Toshiba nixed them, last time I looked Tosh Stocks where still for sale (genuine).

However, the datasheet is still worth looking at as it is one of the few I have found to show detailed H-Parameter dependence on Voltage and current.

Wikipedia has an article on H-Parameters and how to use them to derive other parameters (e.g. Rc') from them, in case you forgot the precise equations...

Ciao T
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