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Old 26th February 2012, 06:50 PM   #2811
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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Old 26th February 2012, 06:56 PM   #2812
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
hearing changes with age. Some people develop "gaps" in their hearing that might be compensated by certain headphones response.
Or it's just a matter of taste - some like hot foods, some hate them, some like peanut butter, some feel like barf it (me).
I could find only the Senn HD598 to compare with Grado SR60. The tests look like below. not a huge difference, SR60 display some higher levels in the treble department compared with Senn.
Very true.

I go and have my ears checked out every year. Last year, my upper limit was 16 kHz, and only two years before that, it was 18 kHz. It's a fact of life we all have to put up with. In my case, part of the reason are my inflamed sinuses, which have now settled down, after I purchased and used a Rainbow air filter. Out here, environmental issues don't even exist, except as a nice mention in election campaigns.

Regarding the two plots, although they look fairly similar, in real life the Senn sounds a lot better than the SR60, and that's not just my opinion. Admittedly, they also cost a lot more than SR60, at least locally.
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:04 PM   #2813
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
At just under 3dB noise figure for a 500 Ohm source impedance, it does not look that good. Very few manu will put accurate ultra low noise plots on the ds.

EDIT - Checked the On-Semi ds the rbb is 160 Ohms or so, not low noise by any measure.
No, that's p**s-poor. Funny to see all those old datasheets talking about "low noise", dating from the days when people were limited to (or thought they were limited to) highish impedances, thus prized high beta.

Of course JFETs were usually cornering at rather high frequencies then as well.

I had a guy who was a o.k. intuitive engineer (BA in music but a ham enthusiast etc.) but who had limited understanding of transistors and noise, and who worked for aerospace circa 1975, in its proverbial "heyday", tell me that I couldn't possibly expect to design anything better than the integrated circuits that he was being showered with samples of in hopes that they'd be specified for war and spacecraft toys. He was trying to get me to try an OP07 as a charge preamp for a capacitive detector, and I told him it was entirely unsuitable. "How can you say that??!! These ICs are designed by PEE AICH DEES!!!" (of course most of the time they are not, but you get his drift. Not that I have anything against people with advanced degrees).

I should have thrown him out of my office at that point, but I suffered fools more gladly then. I did accept a sample of the highest-grade ceramic package -07, and managed to use it somewhere, I recall as some sort of bias source
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:12 PM   #2814
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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SoNic, thanks for the graphs, they speak volumes to me. Especially the ~2KHz bump and dip, which is probably key in what I like. The Senns' response likely just fits my ears and ear canals better than the Grados. The upper grunge of the Grados may also have bothered me, hard to say. Those graphs show a very strong correlation of SQ vs Measurements to me.

FWIW, I use a lot of Sony closed back headphones at work which I find have a nice midrange but lack low end. Fine for the monitoring I have to do. Ultrasone is also rather nice.
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:22 PM   #2815
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
I go and have my ears checked out every year. Last year, my upper limit was 16 kHz, and only two years before that, it was 18 kHz. It's a fact of life we all have to put up with.
Last year I did a check up nad "clean" my ears of wax and I was amazed of the improvement. Better than other hardware modes to my players
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
...the graphs, they speak volumes to me.
I might like my music "spicy" and you "mild" Nothing wrong with that. Maybe, due to my aged ears, the high-end (10-16kHz) profile is exactly what I need - I usually listen without any tone controls. I know that now I can't hear nothing past 17kHz... when i was 18 I tested myself and could hear 21kHz.

Last edited by SoNic_real_one; 26th February 2012 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:25 PM   #2816
bcarso is offline bcarso  United States
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It would be nice if someone did a survey of modern devices for noise. Absent some good work on JFETs recently by Scott W., others with access to Quantechs could do a great service to us all. The old Motchenbacher data, already limited and accompanied by plenty of caveats, was merely reprinted in the newer book with Connelly and is sadly out-of-date.

And of course with counterfeit parts and their ilk, you are, as the preacher says to Sheriff Bart in Blazing Saddles, "on your own".
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:48 PM   #2817
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by SoNic_real_one View Post
Last year I did a check up nad "clean" my ears of wax and I was amazed of the improvement. Better than other hardware modes to my players

I might like my music "spicy" and you "mild" Nothing wrong with that. Maybe, due to my aged ears, the high-end (10-16kHz) profile is exactly what I need - I usually listen without any tone controls. I know that now I can't hear nothing past 17kHz... when i was 18 I tested myself and could hear 21kHz.
My dear fellow, I clean my ears with cotton swabs each and every morning. And wonder which idiot started the Chinese rumour that this could damage your ears ...

Of course it can if you stick the swab in forcefully, but trust me on this, you'd be feeling some nice, undistorted pain with all its harmonics long before you damaged your ear drums.

And I'm anything but "mild". How mild is a guy who at every moment has in his shoulder bag his "survival kit", consisting of a small can of Nescafe (so I can turn your western black water into actual coffee) and a bottle of Tabasco (by far the greatest American invention after the light bulb, it helps me turn your western mush into something that actually has taste)?

To be fair, USA is still not completely lost, not until it has Cajun food. I thrive on it.

And if anyone starts mentioning French baguette, or Danish muffins, I tell you in all sincerity - the bakers of Europe are Germans. Check it out in Munich, around 9 AM. German national cuisine is far too little known and is far too stereotyped to sauerkraut und wurst .

Last edited by dvv; 26th February 2012 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:53 PM   #2818
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My ear doctor virtually cussed out a patent (not me) when I was in his office, for using a cotton swab in his ears. He told the patent that it was unhealthy to do this as it removed all the protective wax coating that was put there for a reason.

Last edited by john curl; 26th February 2012 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 26th February 2012, 07:57 PM   #2819
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The cotton swabs push the wax deeper inside the ear channel and makes a nice packed plug. I did found out that the hard way when I was 30 year old. Vax is supposed to be on sides, not on the eardrum. Also the ear hair cells don't like to be forced rubbed with a swab.
Now I know better. Your milage might vary, since your ears are not the same as mine.

Last edited by SoNic_real_one; 26th February 2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 26th February 2012, 08:13 PM   #2820
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Bacarso, why do you need this info?
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