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Old 15th February 2012, 05:07 PM   #2401
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
I am not interested in "what is audible"...
Well, that sort of sums it up, doesn't it.
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Old 15th February 2012, 05:45 PM   #2402
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What SY just stated is called 'parsing', Thorsten and everyone else.
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Old 15th February 2012, 06:36 PM   #2403
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Sy,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Well, that sort of sums it up, doesn't it.
The reason that I am not interested in establishing audibility limits is that my research concerns other areas. It is strictly directed at practical applications and at preferences of experienced (and modestly well off) listeners, however, i would like solid evidence that the extra cost is justified.

My ideal outcome would in each and every case be that no differences exists and I can use the cheapest and simplest solution and increase the profit.

Ciao T
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Old 15th February 2012, 06:41 PM   #2404
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
My ideal outcome would in each and every case be that no differences exists and I can use the cheapest and simplest solution and increase the profit.
That's not clear. High price equipment generally has an associated "story." The question then becomes, does the price increase exceed the cost increase, and by enough to cover the cost of money over the sales cycle? "Justification" for a business (any business, yours, mine, Joe Blow's) is measured in ROI.
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Old 15th February 2012, 06:52 PM   #2405
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The question is, threshold of audibility of what? Of an amplifier? or amplifier and speaker? Of all recording/reproduction equipment? Or of capacitor, wire, transistor, tube, transformer?
Before setting criteria of measurement we must define what we are going to measure.
If I decide to minimize something that sounds odd I always search for the function, try changing parameters to see if I can amplify/attenuate the effect. If I can attenuate the effect without amplifying something else it is perfect. If it amplifies something else it is fine as well, at least now I know the direction.
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Old 15th February 2012, 06:57 PM   #2406
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
The question is, threshold of audibility of what?
Dunno, that was Thorsten's phrase, not mine, so I'm not sure what he's talking about. I simply used "audibility" (not "threshold of audibility") to mean whether or not he could tell one brand of power supply caps from another by ear alone.
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Old 15th February 2012, 07:08 PM   #2407
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I was just looking at the measurements of AMR's DP-777 in the latest Stereophile and I can't help but compare them to those of the Weiss DAC-202 (published in the same magazine a couple of months ago).

Measured performance suggests the 202 is a clearly superior DAC.
Which part of the measurements, if any, could explain why AMR's approach to building a D/A converter might "sound better" than Weiss' to some listeners?

If we can't give a definitive answer, is it because we need more work on correlating measurements with sound quality or is it because we're measuring the wrong things?
In the latter case, do we need to reconsider the way we measure audio equipment or would it perhaps be more useful to turn our "measuring stick" to said listeners' auxiliary equipment, speakers, listening room etc.?
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Last edited by TheShaman; 15th February 2012 at 07:19 PM.
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Old 15th February 2012, 07:30 PM   #2408
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Dvv, I hope that you understand now, what I was telling you earlier. Nobody from a certain group of dedicated ABX'ers will acknowledge your listening test. It falls outside their 'acceptance' level, and nothing that you say or do will help. I think that your test was OK.
Oh, ABSOLUTELY, John.

There seems to be a drive present here to turn everything into sheer science, whether it merits such a serious approach or not. I am not in the least bit interested WHY silver wiring sound better to me than the copper wiring so long as I can reliably tell which is which in a blind test, which itself, no matter how faulty it may be in relation to the theory of it, has nevertheless yielded a hit rate od 39/40.

39/40 works out to a percentage error of just 2.5%. With a probability of being 97.5% correct, ANY insurance company in the world will agree to issue a policy on my ears. And we all know how careful those folks are, they check you out down to the color of your underpants.

All this reminds oh-so-STRONGLY of that old story:

When the first atronauts went to space, it was discovered that ball point pens will not operate at zero gravity. NASA immediately summoned all its staff on leave, cancelled some of its current projects and reallocated the resources, the current administration immediately passed a bill through congress and senate funding the project with $4 billion. 4 years later, they came out with a novel pen, costing $1,000 per unit, which works.

The Russians used a pencil.
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Old 15th February 2012, 07:35 PM   #2409
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
I agree that Salas may be my cousin, but in Poland they used Latin alphabet.
My sincere apologies, I believed you to be of Russian origins. Which changes nothing in terms of kinsmanship, just the language.

In personal terms between you and me as theoretical cousins, it changes literally nothing, because the Serbian language has BOTH variations, Cyrrilic and Latin. Literally everybody knows and uses them both.
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Old 15th February 2012, 07:35 PM   #2410
sonidos is offline sonidos  United States
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Yeesh, that old NASA story has long legs on the internet. That story gets bigger and better all the time and is not entirely true.

I believe it was Fisher of Fisher pens that bankrolled the project and came about from concerns about bits of pencil lead floating in the space capsule cabin. Someone can back me up on this as I have not time to spend further on it today.

Here ya go:

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

Last edited by sonidos; 15th February 2012 at 07:38 PM. Reason: added linkie
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