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Old 15th February 2012, 02:57 PM   #2391
SY is offline SY  United States
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Old 15th February 2012, 02:57 PM   #2392
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Hi,

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Originally Posted by SY View Post
You're making an extraordinary claim and that requires particular care and transparency in how the data are obtained.
Why would the claim be extraordinary. Where is any claim anyway?

What is presented is an observation, namely that "under blind conditions in this and that fashion we obtained the following results".

There is no claim.

You may argue that certain care was not taken. As someone who has been working with blind tests for audio since the 80's I will on my part take exception to that.

You may argue that the protocol or settings where not suitable, in which case you surely be more precise than just general hand-waving.

As I mentioned I have used very similar arrangements at AMR for many tests, though we also conduct some tests sighted. And yes, we do get negatives in our tests, more often than positives for example.

We tested many (SMD) resistors that did not give rise to any significant preference for example, we find many generic plastic capacitors (regardless of price, advertising budget and claims made) to be essentially so alike that no strong preference is found.

So, if you have any real criticism to offer, or better advise than "hire Randi" I'll consider it, otherwise I may simply limit myself to reading my copy of Aesop...

Ciao T
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Old 15th February 2012, 03:14 PM   #2393
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Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
So, if you have any real criticism to offer, or better advise than "hire Randi" I'll consider it, otherwise I may simply limit myself to reading my copy of Aesop...
I've given you the best advice possible, assuming you want to know what's audible versus what's sellable. Hire an experienced expert in sensory analysis or go cheap and hire a decent magician.
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Old 15th February 2012, 03:25 PM   #2394
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.
With a net worth of a few hundred M$, shoving a quarter in his ear isn't going to help.
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Old 15th February 2012, 03:28 PM   #2395
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Sy,

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I've given you the best advice possible, assuming you want to know what's audible versus what's sellable.
I am not interested in "what is audible", nor do I have funding for this.

Though the results of the stuff I do test has a bearing here, as for several people to express reliable preferences in complete absence of any measurable differences and any that can be seen strongly suggests real audible differences where present, especially if three out of four people present did not even have the faintest clue what the differences where.

The "bad sound" amp identification went well and easily past the requirements for .05 significance and beyond. My own identification of the reference amp also scraped by for .05.

The rest gave us less confidence. It is perhaps more significant tat sonic characterisation of the "bad sound" amp was basically the same, with different words, but the same sonic character being described. Do we really need to run a statistical analysis on this to work out how unlikely this kind of result is, by chance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Hire an experienced expert in sensory analysis or go cheap and hire a decent magician.
Well, given that magician makes his living by deliberately deceiving people for monetary gain, I would be careful to use the word "decent" in the context. The only (self professed) "experienced expert in sensory analysis" in my ken, based on how he earns a living (also by engaging in public deception), also does not strike me as overly trustworthy, so I fear I must decline the advise and stick to my own devices.

Ciao T
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Old 15th February 2012, 04:02 PM   #2396
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Dvv, I hope that you understand now, what I was telling you earlier. Nobody from a certain group of dedicated ABX'ers will acknowledge your listening test. It falls outside their 'acceptance' level, and nothing that you say or do will help. I think that your test was OK.
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Old 15th February 2012, 04:10 PM   #2397
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Well said, Thorsten. While we are direct competitors, I like your approach, especially philosophically.
I chose to make the best that I can, and THEN put a price tag on it.
When I have to make something cheaper, it is at the price of slightly marginal performance. That has been my life experience, and it has worked for the last 39 years to make what many say are better products, than the mid-fi crowd,(even with IC's, recently).

Last edited by john curl; 15th February 2012 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 15th February 2012, 05:17 PM   #2398
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Greeks are also my cousins. Also Wavebourn's, because in his native lanugage he also uses Cyrrilic, so he too is THEORETICALLY a cousin to the Greeks.
I agree that Salas may be my cousin, but in Poland they used Latin alphabet.
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Old 15th February 2012, 06:04 PM   #2399
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Guys,

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Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
I agree that Salas may be my cousin, but in Poland they used Latin alphabet.
Based on genetics the whole Asian, Caucasian and so on race (excluding africans) can be traced to a very small group of africans that left Africa and apparently moved to the middle east. Or humans where created from clay and mud around 6,000 Years ago by a divine being. Or where spirit beings marooned on earth by Xenu. Take your pick.

Either way we are all closely related and even if where not, being human we should see each other as Brothers.

Certainly I view those that give me hard time here as my dear brothers...

Because you cannot choose your family, only your friends.

Ciao T
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Old 15th February 2012, 06:06 PM   #2400
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Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
With a net worth of a few hundred M$, shoving a quarter in his ear isn't going to help.
I was pulling it out. He complimented my command of the French Drop.
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