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Old 7th February 2012, 09:33 PM   #2001
wahab is offline wahab  Algeria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Edit: economists obviously keep out of equation the fact that resources when recycled loose their value, and Mother Earth can't replenish them with the speed they anticipate.
My degree is in economical sciences and i can tell you that
mathematical theories are quite relevant but the fact is that
everything that doesnt support the cuurent system of wealth
transfer by predation is systematically diabolized and downplayed.

Didnt people find intelligent a claim as insane that greed would be good ?..
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Old 7th February 2012, 10:07 PM   #2002
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Originally Posted by wahab View Post
As said , it comes frome nowhere , it s pure book entries , that is
0 and 1 on hard disks...
It is rather belief of people that this 0s and 1s have real value. Like, belief in cables that would make sound better. Remove this belief, and everything collapses.

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Didnt people find intelligent a claim as insane that greed would be good ?..
It was not insane. It was working, when greed as the force was driving progress. Like, water is anyway running in rivers, so running through turbines it creates electricity that powers our amplifiers.
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Last edited by Wavebourn; 7th February 2012 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 7th February 2012, 10:54 PM   #2003
jcx is offline jcx  United States
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Default are we there yet

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or does this thread still have a topic?
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Old 7th February 2012, 11:05 PM   #2004
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As the old joke goes:

"Mathematicians are really cheap to train; all you need is a pencil, paper and a bin. Economists are even cheaper as you don't need the bin".
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:08 AM   #2005
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Somebody just sent me $3300 in interconnect cables. I believe!
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:41 AM   #2006
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Somebody just sent me $3300 in interconnect cables. I believe!
At least John; if belief in money collapse you will still have cables!
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Old 8th February 2012, 12:52 AM   #2007
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Thorsten, this world is no longer ruled by econonmics, it's ruled by out and out greed. Examples are so many, it's hard to pick any one out.

But think of this. We hear day in, day out, how USA has an incredible national debt, how Greece does as well, as do Spain, Portugal, Ireland, etc, etc, etc. Now, when you use "maths" to simply add up all those numbers, you have to ask yourself - if one country borrows, surely it borrows from another country which has a surplus it is willing to lend, right?

But, all those borrowings, when added up, total the world's three year planet Earth production. And since just about everybody owes, one needs to ask: where does all that money come from?

The answer is painfully obious - from national money printers. That "surplus" in effect does not exist.

Which means that you are out of economics and head on into politics; in economics, if you are serious about it, you deal with real resources, not imaginary. In the end, as the theory of accounting dictates, the balance sheet must equal zero, and in our case, it has long stopped being zero. The entire system has been hijacked into imaginary assets and as such, it can no longer be called economics.

A much more appropriate name would be a con.
When has there been no greed, greed drives everything , I'm greedy for more sonics, so satisfy my greed ...More on PSU ........................... !!!!



The owners will sort the rest out ..............
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Old 8th February 2012, 06:52 AM   #2008
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
When has there been no greed, greed drives everything , I'm greedy for more sonics, so satisfy my greed ...More on PSU ........................... !!!!



The owners will sort the rest out ..............
True, greed, avarice, cruetly and such like have been around as long as man has. Most unfortunately, they are a part of our psychological profile, us as a species. The Dark Side Of The Force.

But never before have these traits been given such a free hand. Today, they actually rule this world. There is no more economics on a world level, there is just "investors' confidence", a shady term everybody hides behind. While confidence is the underlying principle of all banking (we trust our banks with our money and that they will pay us the annual interest rate), it has now been upgraded into the one and only leading "principle", the most obvious effect of which is that the financial sector (mostly meaning the wheelers and dealers) actually owns this planet.

Reminds me of the one big sentence in Oliver Stone's "Wall Street" movie, when Hal Halbrook tells his son Charlie Sheen:

"The worst thing about money is that it makes you do things you would otherwise never do."

So we get absurdities by the ton. Nobody is controlling these people. Now we have US investors betting heavily that the euro will fail. They stand to make money out of it, but as far as I know, NOBODY has ever asked a very interesting question: if they suceed, and the euro fails (which won't happen and I'll put money on it), the Eurozone would collapse, and the ripple would produce the biggest economic crisis this world has ever seen. Suddenly, quite a few European countries would be poorer than before. If so, and knowing that around 63% of the total US exports end up in Europe, who would be left who could even afford US products? Who would the US export to, with China, and soon India and Russia, breathing down its neck?

In other words, they are betting heavily against the interests of USA as a nation, and in the short term too, we wouldn't have to wait long for the ripple effects to become tsunamis.
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Old 8th February 2012, 08:00 AM   #2009
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Originally Posted by dvv View Post
But never before have these traits been given such a free hand.
We can't complain when we reach the logical conclusion of the system that we all supposedly benefitted from during the boom years. Most people (in the West) now think that 'normal' is for an ordinary person to have two new cars, foreign holidays whenever they want, 50 inch television in every room, spend $3300 on some pieces of wire etc. We are just seeing the logical conclusion of that unsustainable system, as it implodes. It was always going to implode.
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Old 8th February 2012, 08:04 AM   #2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Now we have US investors betting heavily that the euro will fail. They stand to make money out of it, but as far as I know, NOBODY has ever asked a very interesting question:
I have another question, related to this one. If they win their bet then where does the money come from to pay them their winnings? The people who placed insurance against their Greek bonds going belly up have yet to claim on their CDSs, despite talk being of haircuts in excess of 50%. Anyone ever wondered why?
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