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Old 7th February 2012, 04:19 PM   #1971
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Matematician bought a bookshelf in a store, when he was a student. When he tried to fix it on his wall he took nail and hammer, but could not do that because he oriented the nail wrong way, head on wall, hammering a tip. Of course he returned the shelf back to the store saying that the shelf is incompatible with his wall!
When he got retired their colleagues presented him a big vase for flowers. His wife was a mathematician as well, and she said: "Look, while you were teaching them they showed you respect, now they presented you unusable vase, it has no opening on top!" "Well", he answered. "You are right my darling; this vase even don't have a bottom!"

Edit: I saw some engineers who could not solve a problem if they did not see solutions of such problems before, and they used "Rules of Thumbs" way beyond their applicability. I call them, "Rules of Dumbs".
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Last edited by Wavebourn; 7th February 2012 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:26 PM   #1972
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Nice story Wave
Anyway, I think we all agree that it would be pretty impossible to be a good engineer if you didn't have a reasonable grasp of mathematics.
Once in a while you need to calculate a resistor value or a low-pass frequency ...

jan
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:28 PM   #1973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
In 1972, Pink Floyd used a lamp driven input limiter with their Phase Linear 700's. John Meyer and I found it useful for pro work. Usually, it is just not worth it to add this 'problematic feature'. It causes too much trouble.
In late 1970'th I used also diode clippers combined with optical attenuators: feedback signal for attenuator is a function of current through clipping diodes. Should I patent it? It sounded very clean for such fast attack that it had.
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:31 PM   #1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
Nice story Wave
Anyway, I think we all agree that it would be pretty impossible to be a good engineer if you didn't have a reasonable grasp of mathematics.
Once in a while you need to calculate a resistor value or a low-pass frequency ...
Right, and you can't solve engineering problems effectively if you did not learn as a kid to solve random physics and math problems.
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:42 PM   #1975
dvv is offline dvv  Serbia
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And now that just about everyone here has agreed that we need both theory and practice, and that you're dead in the water without some fast Fourier analysis running in your head, we have - The Parachutists!

The Aliens who drop in and do what is implicitly not possible according to many people here.

If memory serves, messers Conrad and Johnson are economists by training, who used to work for banks ... IMF or WB or some such.

Goddam! And what about those guys who made two Transformers movies, you think they had to know higher maths to create that scientific show?

Last edited by dvv; 7th February 2012 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:50 PM   #1976
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
In 1972, Pink Floyd used a lamp driven input limiter with their Phase Linear 700's. John Meyer and I found it useful for pro work. Usually, it is just not worth it to add this 'problematic feature'. It causes too much trouble.
I never add these to my home amp's (I did consider adding to AMR's Amp's clipping detection force linked to the volume control but eventually decided against it).

But in my Pro-Audio Days I added these clipping limiters religeously to any amp in my hands.

The "guest engineer" from a "guest band" once over-drove the system so badly, after I had repeatedly asked him to contain the amount of overdrive, we had 24pcs fried Electro Vocie 18" Drivers.

The Gig was a washout.

We spend days just pulling the drivers out of the bass-bins to have them re-build.

The driver re-builder we used (remember, this was eastern europe, there where not many) only had a handful of exchange units and spare parts for a few more and it would take weeks to get the recone kits via west germany. So we used every re-coner in the (small) country to get halve our drivers back before the next weekend.

So we had to scrounge, scrimp, beg borrow and whatever we could get to get some kind of sound system together. I drove around the whole week collecting drivers and pulled an all-nighter with some of the roadies fitting the drivers back into the bass bins. We had some loaded with JBL, some Gauss, some Peavey Black widow and some with really crappy cheapos with stamped frames. But we had sound.

After something like that you add clipping limiters. I later even added positive feedback to them so would limit more as you continued to turn up the wick if they where already engaged. The system would drop out majorly and other engineers kept it clean after this cut in a few times..

Still lost the occasional driver (happens), but I never again had a system wide blow-out.

Ciao T
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Old 7th February 2012, 04:55 PM   #1977
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
If memory serves, messers Conrad and Johnson are economists by training, who used to work for banks ... IMF or WB or some such.
And AFAIK they do the company building and marketing, but not the circuit design (though after serving some early CJ gear I'm questioning that), they pay people to do the math for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvv View Post
Goddam! And what about those guys who made two Transformers movies, you think they had to know higher maths to create that scientific show?
The guys who made the movies probably had non. The guys who created the software that was used for all the CGI and the guys that designed the Computers that did the rendering etc., we may safely presume, knew how to add and then a bit more...

So, no aliens, just "Business-men"...

Ciao T

Last edited by ThorstenL; 7th February 2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 7th February 2012, 05:09 PM   #1978
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
Anyway, I think we all agree that it would be pretty impossible to be a good engineer if you didn't have a reasonable grasp of mathematics.
Given how often the EPOS Tills in the Supermarkets or their operators "glitch" it would be pretty much impossible to go shopping without getting ripped off if one does not at least have the ability to add, subtract discount, multiply multiple items and so on...

I often have this kind of conversation:

Till Girl: XXX Money please.
Me: You or your Till made a mistake, the correct amount is YYY.
Till Girl: No, it is XXX Money.
Me: No, I calculated from the prices on the shelfs etc. and it is YYY.

... various levels of arguments ensue ...

... Eventually the supervisor orders a re-swipe and finds an item was swiped twice or I find the line where the EPOS had one price and the rack another ...

Till Girl: Sorry about the trouble Sir.
Me: No worries. You are cute, give me your number and we have coffee?
Till Girl: In your Dreams.
Me: It's a date.

If you are, like me, a heavy hitter in the gourmet food and deli section such mistakes can be costly...

Ciao T
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Old 7th February 2012, 05:15 PM   #1979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorstenL View Post
Hi,



And AFAIK they do the company building and marketing, but not the circuit design (though after serving some early CJ gear I'm questioning that), they pay people to do the math for them.

Goddam! And what about those guys who made two Transformers movies, you think they had to know higher maths to create that scientific show?
The guys who made the movies probably had non. The guys who created the software that was used for all the CGI and the guys that designed the Computers that did the rendering etc., we may safely presume, knew how to add and then a bit more...

So, no aliens, just "Business-men"...

Ciao T[/QUOTE]

Thorsten, my dear fellow, don't be too literal. I was only kidding.

However, now that you mentioned it, I seem to remember that in an interview, Mr Johson did mention that he and his colleague Mr Conrad did actually design some of their first products ...

Is that too hard to bear?

I mean, look, all that was said is nice and fine, but several times I have come across 100% scientifically designed amps, which had exemplary behavior in purely electric terms, but which sounded like pure crap. No matter what is needed along the way, in the end, it all comes down to the designer's hearing, it's the designer who gives the product its "voicing". He decides when is enough enough, or when something should be done anew.

Scientists and engineers sometimes tend to design for science, not for people. Not all, not all the time, of course, but sometimes.
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Old 7th February 2012, 05:22 PM   #1980
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Any decent economist would be quite good at maths. The weakness of economics is that when creating their equations they make false assumptions about how markets work etc. They then find a correct solution to the wrong equation. Physicists are now beginning to muscle in on economics, using either better assumptions or (shock!) the results of actual experiments or simulations of how people really interact. It turns out that economic systems can exhibit behaviour analogous to phase transitions. To some extent this explains the world crash, which most economists did not see coming.
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