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Old 19th January 2012, 04:10 PM   #1121
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
... this approach that SY truly believes in, will most probably go by and pass into history.
So you don't believe in science or the scientific method?
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:18 PM   #1122
SY is offline SY  United States
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Buchlein, R., "The Audibility of Frequency Response Irregularities" (1962), reprinted in English in Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 29, pp. 126-131 (1981)
Carlstrom, David, Greenhill, Laurence, Krueger, Arnold, "Some Amplifiers Do Sound Different", The Audio Amateur, 3/82, p. 30, 31, also reprinted in Hi-Fi News & Record Review, Link House Magazines, United Kingdom, Dec 1982, p. 37.
Clark, D. L., "Is It Live Or Is It Digital? A Listening Workshop", Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol.33 No.9, pp.740-1 (September 1985)
Gabrielsonn and Sjogren, "Perceived Sound Quality of Sound Reproducing Systems", Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, Vol 65, pp 1019-1033 (1979 April)
Gabrielsonn, "Dimension Analyses of Perceived Sound Quality of Sound Reproducing Systems", Scand. J. Psychology, Vol. 20, pp. 159-169 (1979)
Grusec, Ted, Thibault, Louis, Beaton, Richard, "Sensitive Methodolgies for the Subjective Evaluation of High Quality Audio Coding Systems", Presented at Audio Engineering Society UK DSP Conference 14-15 September 1992
Lipschitz, Stanley P., and Van der kooy, John, "The Great Debate: Subjective Evaluation", Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 29 No. 7/8, Jul/Aug 1981, pp. 482-491.
Toole, Floyd E., "Listening Tests - Turning Opinion Into Fact", Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 30, No. 6, June 1982, pp. 431-445.
Toole, Floyd E., "The Subjective Measurements of Loudspeaker Sound Quality & Listener Performance", Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 33, pp. 2-32 (1985 Jan/Feb)
Toole, Floyd E., and Olive, Sean E., "The Detection of Reflections in Typical Rooms", Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 39, pp. 539-553 (1989 July/Aug)
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:21 PM   #1123
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So you don't believe in science or the scientific method?
No, I don't think that's what John was saying; if I understand him correctly, he takes issue with the idea of evaluating audio equipment by ears alone (i.e., no peeking). For John, it's important to know (visually or otherwise) what he's listening to so he can tell what he's hearing. I don't get it, but I've got a rather simpler mind.
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:24 PM   #1124
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How could I believe in science? I have a BA in physics, lots of after graduate classes in engineering, have 100's of books on physics on my bookshelf, and have studied audio problems and solutions for the last 47 years or more.
Double blind testing FOR ME, has not been shown to be useful. To believe in something just because it follows scientific protocol, YET does not give useful results, is pointless.
However, some believe in it anyway, and like 'religion' I can accept that, so long as they do not try to push it on me, or attempt to negate my opinions and conclusions by citing Toole, Lipshitz or any of that particular group of believers.
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:25 PM   #1125
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While most of this is very interesting and _might_ show a way in the right direction, this is not yet "scientific proof". I guess none of you would take medication that has tested with such small samples.
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:28 PM   #1126
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Proof of what?
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:28 PM   #1127
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While most of this is very interesting and _might_ show a way in the right direction, this is not yet "scientific proof".
Yes but it is "weight of evidence", and I don't see any significant amount of papers rebutting.

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I guess none of you would take medication that has tested with such small samples.
You might want to google the new research that's been done on Tamiflu.
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:29 PM   #1128
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It isn't 'peeking', it is keeping track of what source I am listening to, WHEN the music is continually changing. 'Peeking' implies actually seeing something and making some judgement from what one might see, but that is NOT the case, here. It is just having an A be an A, and a B be a B, so that I can decide whether I prefer A or B or if they both sound essentially the same. A computer could arbitrarily assign A and B, to two different products, and not tell me which is A or B. That would not matter.
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:30 PM   #1129
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
However, some believe in it anyway, and like 'religion' I can accept that...
And some refuse to believe in to, like a "religion". I can accept that, as long as it's understood to be an opinion or belief.
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Old 19th January 2012, 04:30 PM   #1130
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To believe in something just because it follows scientific protocol, YET does not give useful results, is pointless.
Results from controlled sensory testing may not be useful for someone selling entertainment and fashion, but for determining audible phenomena, they are incredibly useful.
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