Sound Quality Vs. Measurements

[gaetan8888]

Originally Posted by Pano

Denon AVR-591.

Hello

I found the service manual but at near 30 meg with my low speed connection, I will pass.

For those who like to see it, here's the link:

DENON AVR-591 VER-1 Service Manual free download, schematics, eeprom, repair info for electronics

Thank

Bye

Gaetan

[Pano]

Here is the Denon amp schema. It's large for detail so you may have to scroll around.

[gaetan8888]

Hello Pano

Thank for the schematic.

Bye

Gaetan

[ThorstenL]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Pano

Here is the Denon amp schema. It's large for detail so you may have to scroll around.

There seems very little uncommon about this amplifier, except, both gain stages have resistive loading which limits the open loop gain quite significantly over unloaded conditions. Sadly it does not really help linearity, as degeneration may have been a better choice.

Interestingly this is the one common feature with the Rotel Amplifiers tvrgeeks wife tolerates...

Ciao T

[TheShaman]

Glad to see the attention I've brought upon the Soulution amps. I too would be very interested to read what makes these amps "tick" since I've been watching this company since 2008 that I first heard them.

I should inform those of you who didn't read the original ("best sounding amplifiers") thread that this is only my personal subjective (and thus kinda useless to the rest of you) preference out of the many production amps I've heard in shows, hobbyist homes, stores etc.

The best Soulution setup I've heard was with Sonus Faber Stradivari's (that's actually the best setup I've ever heard - period).
They even sounded good with horns, which are not my cup of tea tbh...

Soulution-powered setups have constantly been one of the few that I've heard and thought "ok this is nothing like what I hear in my place".
That and LAMM gear if I had to choose a tube setup as well.

Again I'm not much of a subjectivist but I'm human after all and when I saw that my subjective evaluation was matched with good measurements, excellent build quality and great mechanical construction, I was sold.
I do have to remember to enter lotteries and stuff more often though, cause I'll never be able to afford that gear otherwise...

Until then I'll stick to my DIY gear..

I'll be reading the tech analysis/discussion with interest.

[SY]

Originally Posted by ThorstenL

Well, it has been shown before (if not for the precise amplifiers you have listed, but in principle)...

A lot of slip between "in principle" and what I said.

In my mind, "measurements" include measurement of subjective perception. It can certainly be quantified, and determined objectively. That seems like step one before trying to correlate some electrical measurement, a reason why I urge tvrgeek to run a better listening test for his wife to nail that down. It's really not that hard to do.

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by SY

In my mind, "measurements" include measurement of subjective perception. It can certainly be quantified, and determined objectively.

Any evidence for this claim?

[SY]

Originally Posted by abraxalito

Any evidence for this claim?

An extremely rich literature. I'm sure that if you google "sensory research," "hedonic analysis," and similar terms, you'll find the thousands of textbooks and papers which deal with this research area.

[abraxalito]

Yes but 'extremely rich literature' is not evidence.

[ThorstenL]

Sy,

Originally Posted by SY

In my mind, "measurements" include measurement of subjective perception. It can certainly be quantified, and determined objectively.

As we are talking about music replay systems (not any other subjective perception) please provide the suggested procedures including proof of controls implemented and proof the procedures are sufficiently sensitive using very small sample sizes for the evaluation of music replay systems.

In case of the employment of statistical methods in the context of this evaluation it would be essential to state the likelyhood of both types of statistical errors (this has been called error budget) and show that the risk of either type of statistical error is balanced (equal risk) and that any results can be taken to have any statistical power. In cases statistics are not involved we of course do not need such details.

Ciao T