Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th December 2011, 12:51 AM   #91
tvrgeek is online now tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
Remember, the 303 was built to drive the 62's. They had no bass anyway. Oh, but what vocals!
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 01:02 AM   #92
wahab is offline wahab  Algeria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: algeria/france
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
Remember, the 303 was built to drive the 62's. They had no bass anyway. Oh, but what vocals!
Quite possible , but anyway , it was way better than tube gears
in many respects..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post

I agree, the 5532 was a HUGE breakthrough. If well used, it is still competitive for a lot of applications. It is the chip that started to take the bad name away from op-amps in high end that the TL082 could not quite do. But the newer chips are even closer to the textbook op-amp.
Those who are able to read datasheets know that the 5534/5532
is barely bested by those so called new op amps that are in fact
often below the ancestor in matter of linearity....
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 05:14 AM   #93
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahab View Post
Quite possible , but anyway , it was way better than tube gears in many respects..
But not in all, otherwise an "octal socket" would be one that an op-amp fits and not a 6SL7 or 6SN7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wahab View Post
Those who are able to read datasheets know that the 5534/5532 is barely bested by those so called new op amps that are in fact
often below the ancestor in matter of linearity....
I don't know, I quite fancy the AD811 and LM6181 for "much better than 553X"...

Ciao T
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 06:29 AM   #94
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by counter culture View Post
Right, ThorstenL.

Like quantum radiation from the event horizon of a black hole, I don't think?

Let's see how much regard TL (a principal offender) has for accuracy...
Really!?

I have read endless articles (in WW) and books by D.Self where he quite clearly stated that the 553X series was "as good as it gets" and there was no benefits to any supposed exotic Op-Amp's...

It may be that he has in recent times changed his view (though his slight modification as you stated it does not really change the meaning dramatically).

I am not one of his followers who reads each and every thing he writes (his writings have become increasingly dull, old-fashioned and outdated).

So while his original views remain in print quoting them or paraphrasing them surely is not inaccurate.

If D. Self had wanted to correct his position he could have gone on record and recanted his earlier position much more strongly and publicly (like stating on the first page of his website - "I was wrong - better op-amps than the 553X exist, they are X and and Y and from now on should be used instead of the 553X Series".

Incidentally, Op-Amp's with a much higher audio performance (though not neccessarily marketed for audio use) than the 553X series existed even during the time when D. Self solely championed the 553X series, so the inaccuracy if there ever was any was his for not recognising the simple truth at the time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by counter culture View Post
Respect for other members is automatic, Pano, until they themselves forfeit it.
Truer words have rarely been said...

May I add John 8:32 and wish all a happy holiday, even counter culture...

Ciao T

Last edited by ThorstenL; 25th December 2011 at 06:35 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 07:04 AM   #95
diyAudio Member
 
Wavebourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Send a message via Skype™ to Wavebourn
Why do you write 553X?
5532 and 5534 are very different opamps.
__________________
If I disappear suddenly, that means I finally created a time machine and pushed wrong button that brought me to Stalin's Russia. In any experiment any result is the result. Even if it is negative.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 07:33 AM   #96
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Why do you write 553X?
5532 and 5534 are very different opamps.
According to the datasheets they use essentially the same circuit, except the 5534 needs external compensations to be unity gain stable...

I do not hear any great differences, but I'm spoiled by OPA627 and Video Op-Amp's, so where the 553X lives is quite lowly a territory, making me notice more how they differ from high performance Op-Amp's, than from each other.

Of course, not every OPA marked 5532 or 5534 still uses the original internal design, some manufacturers have introduced versions that are rather different internally, though they show the original internal schematics in their datasheets.

Ciao T
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 09:05 AM   #97
diyAudio Member
 
DBMandrake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Glasgow, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
Peter Walker of Quad claimed never to have listened to his amplifiers, merely to have checked that they worked properly by measuring them. Yet they sold by the hundreds of thousands in various topologies to enthusiastic customers, including audiophiles, musicians, recording studios, the BBC etc. Was it all just a fluke*? A triumph of marketing?
I find it very hard to accept that he never ever listened to his own designs.

I can accept that during a production run of amps that he would not listen to each one - simply verify that each met the expected set of measurements. No problem with that. Once the design is set in stone there is no point in individual listening tests of individual amps of the same design as long as they measure the same, in fact you're more likely to hear differences that aren't actually there in such testing.

I could even accept that during the design process he didn't listen to them, but was guided entirely by measurements and following specific design principles. This is a bit more of a stretch, but still believable.

But never listened to an amplifier he designed ? I don't believe that for a second. He never used one of his own designs on his own personal home system at any time ? Sounds a bit like actors who claim to have never watched one of their own movies...
__________________
- Simon

Last edited by DBMandrake; 25th December 2011 at 09:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 10:29 AM   #98
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St. Petersburg
Personally I do not own but like very much how McIntosh gear is designed and sounding. AFAIK they starts there measures by building of anechoic chamber.

IMHO electric measures of an amp itself tells nothing regarding the sound unless the measures are bad means obviously no good sound stay away from the amp.

May be R2D2 can feed the amp output right into his electric brains like oscilloscope being feed with an amp's signal and could be happy with just an amp that delivers good sine & square on oscilloscope.

Unfortunately humans are not so sophisticated they can hear by ears only and I believe that is the reason why they can be so picky sometimes instead of just being pleased by printed figures of a good THD only.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 10:59 AM   #99
tvrgeek is online now tvrgeek  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Md
" was "as good as it gets" and there was no benefits to any supposed exotic Op-Amp's..."

Yesterday's exotic is today's generic. For the problem he was solving, it is quite reasonable that the 553x fully met his needs. Specific needs at a specific time. Do not confuse the problem he was solving with all other problems. Basic engineering.

Do I need an "exotic" op amp? The buffers that feed my A2D do, as they are part of test equipment and by basic good practice should be at least ten times as good as what I am measuring. In my head amp, I can hear a difference between the original who-the-heck-knows-probably-counterfeit from China, to the Signetics to the National. Yup. Quieter.

I can't guarantee the first chips were not damaged as I did not control the assembly. I only know I used my static station and proper procedures from tube to socket with the National. The Signetics is not as fragile as earlier J-fet input devices. We tested in the lab that just lifting one with tweezers in the dry air of Colorado could damage them such as to increases input offset by 100 times.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th December 2011, 11:09 AM   #100
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
For the problem he was solving, it is quite reasonable that the 553x fully met his needs. Specific needs at a specific time. Do not confuse the problem he was solving with all other problems. Basic engineering.
Bingo; the paraphrase and removal from context is polemics, not technical argumentation.

For the problem of a line level audio amplifier which is audibly transparent, even the misquote of DS is correct. For the problem of differentiation in a dying niche market and perceived value to justify high price tags, indeed that solution is inadequate, "dull, old-fashioned, and outdated," if you will.
__________________
"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous."- H. L. Mencken
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sound Card for Measurements Marik Solid State 2 2nd January 2012 08:59 PM
Sound Card Recommendations (For Audio Measurements) dchisholm Equipment & Tools 5 16th July 2011 09:40 AM
How to protect sound card during amp measurements? okapi Everything Else 13 2nd September 2008 03:06 PM
Quality Control differences = variations in sound quality? KT Class D 0 14th November 2004 06:51 AM
Sound cards - test and measurements jackinnj Everything Else 2 5th July 2003 03:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:47 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2