Correct!
Remember also that in most colleges the staff are cut to the bone. ie if the tutor is off sick then thats it..you may get an IT tutor trying to do their best for a few sessions.
Out of about 20 students app three may do some DIY at home.. Some may play with building computers..
Regards
M. Gregg
I wonder if that's always been the way, to some extent. I just can't imagine what hard work it would be trying to train a new graduate who had no interest in the subject beyond the fact it could get him a job. I would be expecting him to head straight for 'management' as soon as he could.
Analogue electronics skills are rare, but not IT and computer-related skills. In my work I am surrounded by mysteriously-outstanding IT and computer-related experts some of whom are very young. I am fairly sure that they got most of their skills from the hobby side of things, because they didn't learn them from their particular university courses. And it's not even as if they only know about the (relatively!) 'glamorous' or exciting sides of computing: they can wax lyrical for hours about version control or databases. They know all about the latest trends in the most mundane (but probably important) subjects on earth, it seems to me.
At least in Russia in 1970'th it was the reality, I don't know about USA and GB, but their equipment was supedb also, and judging from such magazines like Wireless World engineers knew what they did.
We had set of mandatory courses for 5 years, starting from math, chemistry, physics, elementary electronics, and so on. There were lectures, seminars, laboratory works, projects, that each student had to pass. There were short internships, on real plants, in scientific institutes, to give students how real process in real life look and feel. First 2 years we learned basics only, then specialization started, from the 3'rd year. Laboratories participated in research and developlemt programs, professors were employed part time on plants and in scientific institutes, like Institute of Semiconductor Devices.
Even before 3'rd year was some specialization. Out institute, TIASUR (Tomsk Institute of Automated Control Systems and Radio Electronics) had several major divisions, so called Faculties, that were divided to Cathedrals. Our was called "Design and Technology", there were also "Radiotechnics", "Control Systems", "Industrial Electronics". Our KTF (Design and Technology Faculty) had 2 major divisions, "Design and manufacturing of Radio and Electronics Equipment", and "Design and Manufacturing of Computer Systems". They were already specialized, from 1'st year, in terms of different disciplines taught, and in terms of details taught. We could not choose which disciplines to take. We could choose direction only, then go to the further specialization. It was a tree-like system, you could not jump from a branch to another branch without passing exams for disciplines you did not learn. Nothing in Soviet Union was completely free to choose, because nothing was market-driven, everything was planned, including how many students with certain knowledge and skills to prepare. Then there was "Distribution". Each institution invited people from HR departments of enterprises who "ordered" certain number of specialists, then there was a freedom to choose. Best enterprises were taking best students, and so on. Nobody left without a job. It was illegal not to have a job. Next 2 years ex-students were called "Young Specialists". They did not have diplomas on hands, their employers kept them for 2 years. After 2 years of work in the regime similar to "H1-B visa" they were free either to stay, or to go to the different enterprise to work.
However, it was not the best system and not the best education, but at least students were taught to think, make decisions, to understand what they were doing. However, there were very different students. Some were coming there to get educated husbands. Some were coming because parents wanted them to have such profession. Some were eager to learn. However, in the worst case "Pass exams and get my any diploma" they were not top level engineers, but anyway the system of mandatory properly selected courses lead them to certain sets of knowledge that being even incomplete were deeper than result of modern multi-choice set of "Right Answers", when they even don't need to know why that particular answers are "Right".
Very few are born with a true vocation, apart from sexual reproduction of course.
I can't for the life of me understand why I think the way I do but I suspect they didn't teach me this strange kind of logic at school.
Not many of the students seem to have an interest beyond getting the job.
Some not even that much and drop out after the first maths session.
Some courses have been dropped due to lack of interest..
I’ll give an example of how funding effects the issue..
In the past if you were pushing Tesco trollies for a supermarket and wanted to become an engineer you could do a few night classes and it was part funded so the cost was lower to train to move into engineering..even retired people could get classes and courses.
Now the funding has changed and to be doing the course you have to be either an apprentice (working for a company ) as an engineer or go to Uni and pay the vast sums for the course.
Why because part of the courses have become vocational ie you can’t get the required evidence for the Qual if you are no doing the job…
It’s a real shame that some colleges have dropped engineering all together.
I don’t think we are moving forward, there is no vision of the future its clouded in red tape and teaching methods.
Many trainees in the past had a genuine interest and curiosity, building their own projects for fun.
My impression is education has lost its way…I think this is a real serious issue..its not (Real)
Its full of the dreams of learning styles and methods<<<OK teaching is a subject on its own, however Its full of pressure for all the wrong reasons..The colleges are profit making companies they sell courses.
Where is the wave of new reality, the Einstein’s of the world the new discoverers of technology..
In the world today they are not important only money talks..I visualise people drinking champagne and laughing as the world comes to an end…while everyone else (the ants) look in amazement saying what’s gone wrong why didn’t we see it coming..
Many of the old lecturers are retiring early saying they have had it (enough is enough) and they feel sorry for the youth and what the future holds..
Sorry it sounds quite depressing but something needs to change and slapping more paperwork on it to make more money is not the answer. Someone at the top needs to actually care and do a reality check.
I'm going to shut up now because its so annoying...
..
I should lighten up perhaps time for a change of job..
Regards
M. Gregg
Some not even that much and drop out after the first maths session.
Some courses have been dropped due to lack of interest..
I’ll give an example of how funding effects the issue..
In the past if you were pushing Tesco trollies for a supermarket and wanted to become an engineer you could do a few night classes and it was part funded so the cost was lower to train to move into engineering..even retired people could get classes and courses.
Now the funding has changed and to be doing the course you have to be either an apprentice (working for a company ) as an engineer or go to Uni and pay the vast sums for the course.
Why because part of the courses have become vocational ie you can’t get the required evidence for the Qual if you are no doing the job…
It’s a real shame that some colleges have dropped engineering all together.
I don’t think we are moving forward, there is no vision of the future its clouded in red tape and teaching methods.
Many trainees in the past had a genuine interest and curiosity, building their own projects for fun.
My impression is education has lost its way…I think this is a real serious issue..its not (Real)
Its full of the dreams of learning styles and methods<<<OK teaching is a subject on its own, however Its full of pressure for all the wrong reasons..The colleges are profit making companies they sell courses.
Where is the wave of new reality, the Einstein’s of the world the new discoverers of technology..
In the world today they are not important only money talks..I visualise people drinking champagne and laughing as the world comes to an end…while everyone else (the ants) look in amazement saying what’s gone wrong why didn’t we see it coming..
Many of the old lecturers are retiring early saying they have had it (enough is enough) and they feel sorry for the youth and what the future holds..
Sorry it sounds quite depressing but something needs to change and slapping more paperwork on it to make more money is not the answer. Someone at the top needs to actually care and do a reality check.
I'm going to shut up now because its so annoying...
..I should lighten up
perhaps time for a change of job..Regards
M. Gregg
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You can bring a horse to the water, but you can not force it to drink...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Not true. Not to my knowledge anyway, when was that? Maybe better than today but that doesn't make it quite good.
By the results, always by the results. Hmmm....definitely not Russia, not USA and not UK. I like small countries myself: Holland, Switzerland, Denmark... Pretty clean and well organized. Of course there's no perfect country and there's no perfect education. I really don't care if people know about Newton or the Pythagoras' theorem as long as they behave in an intelligent and civilized manner.
not just electronics
An analogous situation occurs in medicine. We've yet to find a physician to partner and eventually take over our thriving pediatric practice. Most interview-ees run for the exits as soon as the words "business" and "manage" come up... regardless of any advantages of small practice medicine, be it financial or control (and there are many... twice the income for 1/2 the work, make your own decisions, that sort of thing).
They all want a 9 to 5'er and are incapable of making independent decisions on their feet, w/o some sort of "decision tree" they saw in a 2 week seminar on "running your business/medical practice"
One of the "competitors" down the street, populated with fresh docs by the local managing hospital, had one of our patients over the weekend at "urgent care"...patient presented with ear pain... the doctor had to go "look up" the proper treatment for OE, then put her on antibiotics instead...
Parent stated she'd never go there again, on the follow up appt. Monday morning...
So next time you're siting in a doctors waiting room, feeling like sheep or cattle waiting for the slaughter, thank the educational establishment(s) for their exemplary real world street smart training...
John L.
An analogous situation occurs in medicine. We've yet to find a physician to partner and eventually take over our thriving pediatric practice. Most interview-ees run for the exits as soon as the words "business" and "manage" come up... regardless of any advantages of small practice medicine, be it financial or control (and there are many... twice the income for 1/2 the work, make your own decisions, that sort of thing).
They all want a 9 to 5'er and are incapable of making independent decisions on their feet, w/o some sort of "decision tree" they saw in a 2 week seminar on "running your business/medical practice"
One of the "competitors" down the street, populated with fresh docs by the local managing hospital, had one of our patients over the weekend at "urgent care"...patient presented with ear pain... the doctor had to go "look up" the proper treatment for OE, then put her on antibiotics instead...
Parent stated she'd never go there again, on the follow up appt. Monday morning...
So next time you're siting in a doctors waiting room, feeling like sheep or cattle waiting for the slaughter, thank the educational establishment(s) for their exemplary real world street smart training...
John L.
Look here John what happens in Medicine...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
There were people everywhere who always complained about all new is worse than all old. May be they were right?
Can you explain how, and what for, Mayan tribesmen knew about Cycles of Precession? Can you explain why Mythraic Mysteries were Mysteries, where did they get that wast knowledge about Astronomy, and why it was sacred for them?
Progress is good if it’s in the right direction. (Social conscience)
The problem is whenever money is made important in anything (the goal) you get corruption.
Money making without true direction is a fallacy (For social infrastructure)
In education or health etc the desire is to make money not best practice.
We lose sight of the aim (42) the feeling becomes one of the lunatics have taken control of the asylum.
OK you have to have both however whenever the balance scale tips in either direction its out of control.
The problem is the only way to regain control is to let it fail and restructure (change the aim).
This seems to be reflective in the world as it stands now..
Regards
M. Gregg
The problem is whenever money is made important in anything (the goal) you get corruption.
Money making without true direction is a fallacy (For social infrastructure)
In education or health etc the desire is to make money not best practice.
We lose sight of the aim (42) the feeling becomes one of the lunatics have taken control of the asylum.
OK you have to have both however whenever the balance scale tips in either direction its out of control.
The problem is the only way to regain control is to let it fail and restructure (change the aim).
This seems to be reflective in the world as it stands now..
Regards
M. Gregg
I think this can be generalized. Whenever a numerical target is made the aim, you'll get people gaming the system. In other words you give people an incentive to cheat by setting such a target. Take NHS waiting times as just one example, or the way compensation is being paid for late trains as another. A financial target is just one instance of the generic case.
Just my thoughts,
Looking a scenarios..
We have a person living in a castle who is so "well off" they want for nothing.
Around his castle is a barbed wire fence guards electric force fields etc and the person is afraid to go out because everything around is death, destruction, poverty and pain.
Or.
We have the person in the castle who is "well off" , however around him children are playing people are happy and have direction in life. no guards needed or force fields..
OK I think Eden is a long way off maybe impossible but which would you chose?
Regards
M. Gregg
Looking a scenarios..
We have a person living in a castle who is so "well off" they want for nothing.
Around his castle is a barbed wire fence guards electric force fields etc and the person is afraid to go out because everything around is death, destruction, poverty and pain.
Or.
We have the person in the castle who is "well off" , however around him children are playing people are happy and have direction in life. no guards needed or force fields..
OK I think Eden is a long way off maybe impossible but which would you chose?
Regards
M. Gregg
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