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Old 20th May 2011, 01:49 AM   #21
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Old 20th May 2011, 02:02 AM   #22
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Whether it is a conspiracy of the degreed to only hire degreed or not I don't know. I do know that it is nearly impossible to land an engineering job in a big company without one. Forget an engineering job, you can't even get an entry level technician job without a tech school degree.

38 years ago, after the typical father - teenage son argument about being a worthless kid, I ripped out a "technicians wanted" ad from the newspaper and walked into the Motorola plant and told them to hire me. I had a high school education with bad grades and had been kicked out of the local community college for GPA > 0. They handed me a 60 question test designed to find good techs, which I aced. I still work there. A few years after I started the test was deemed "discriminatory" since not enough minorities could pass it, so it was abolished and the mandantory degree was established.

There was a policy whereby a good technician that did engineering work (real product design stuff) could become an engineer. It took me 11 years but I did it. Engineer.....No Degree. Not many did this. A few years later the tables began to turn. The recession fueled the layoffs and guess who was high on the target list. I was relatively safe but two different bosses put it in writing on performance reviews...No Degree.....No More Promotions......EVER! The clincher..Motorola would pay for the college degree, AND let me leave early to go to school.

OK even a dumb blonde could figure this one out. I could sit in front of my computer taking data, or I could go to college. I had to get a C or better and finish my degree. At the age of 37 I entered college. Yes it was hard doing all that F^#(@in homework, but it was fun. Ath the age of 40 I had a BSCE (computer engineering) degree. So much fun that I reenlisted. Yes the big dumb blonde one got a MSEE degree too. I chased that one at a much slower pace. It took 6 years to get.

It was far easier to get a degree and actually understand all that math stuff after working with it for 20 years. It is also easier to be ahead of the young kids when you figure out that their prime reason for being there is the social scene. Yes I learned some useful things, and a ton of useless stuff.
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Old 20th May 2011, 02:07 AM   #23
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That means, with such education and such results of education we are facing looong-looong crisis. Economics consists of each and every business. Businesses consists of people who don't think of goals, they think of right answers. Which answers are right? Ok, let's search in books... Let's search in Internet... Ok! According to this scientific research most of companies did that this way... Here is the right answer!

Wait, how well that companies are doing now? Ah, they are in crisis! Why? Because of crisis around? Or may be they are in crisis exactly because of their decisions, their way of doing the business?


Ahh, they were doing everything right?
Ok, if they were doing everything right, but Chinese comrades who did it wrong won, may be we should do something "wrong" too?
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Old 20th May 2011, 02:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubelab.com View Post
Whether it is a conspiracy of the degreed to only hire degreed or not I don't know.
It is not the conspiracy. It is called ignorance. When people learned some artificial answers on questions only those who know that "right" answers can answer them "properly".

Like, give please the Right Definition of Tube Sound, George!
I'm pretty sure you will fail, because you don't know what is written on Wiki page about Tube Sound. What is written there, is some opinions that are not shared by you and others who really build tube amps and know what the sound is about.

Do you call it conspiracy? Come on George, it is "Standard ignorance inherited by standard multiple choice education".
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Old 20th May 2011, 02:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavebourn View Post
Do you call it conspiracy? .
Occam's Razor - the simpler explanation is to be preferred. I call it groupthink.
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Old 20th May 2011, 04:50 AM   #26
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I think it's too disorganized to be called a conspiracy. No one is sitting around a table plotting the offensive. Abraxalito's groupthink is more like it. And I think of it as a created economic class. Created by the degreed class as economic security.
Wavebourn, I wouldn't argue about your view of contemporary education, but do have a few comments about:
"Economics consists of each and every business." I advocate that theory of social interaction espoused by Comte and Nock, so I view economics as much bigger. (eg see my sig)
"Businesses consists of people who don't think of goals, they think of right answers." True enough here for a stereotype, but I want to fair and mention the many many companies who do have goals and seek to creatively achieve them.
"Ok, if they were doing everything right, but Chinese comrades who did it wrong won, may be we should do something "wrong" too?" I'm not sure of the meaning of "won" in this context. Working for $100 a month is winning? If so, place is the place for me to be. I've got no problem with that.
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Old 20th May 2011, 09:30 AM   #27
SY is offline SY  United States
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It's pure CYA. Hiring at big companies goes through HR. If a degreed hire doesn't work out, HR takes less blame- hey, he has a credential!

The other aspect is sorting- most positions have hundreds of applicants. No one wants to spend days going through each CV in detail and interview every applicant. So, just as colleges have arbitrary GPA or SAT cutoffs. a credential filter knocks the applicant pool down while not (generally) reducing its quality. Fair? No, but in the words of the great philosopher Clint Eastwood, fair's got nothin' to do with it.
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Old 21st May 2011, 05:11 PM   #28
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That view has merit IMO, but I think it quite possible that it is more a symptom than the actual illness.
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Old 21st May 2011, 05:44 PM   #29
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A few years ago I found myself back at university doing a PhD. This involved assisting with running undergraduate labs. One of the things which annoyed me was students who measured some property of some circuit they had built, then ask me whether they had got the "right answer". I usually told them that if they had measured the right thing in the right way, then for them that was the right answer; for the better students I might also ask if they thought their result was reasonable. They didn't seem to understand that their circuit might give a different result for, say, gain than the student next to them on the bench.

I assume this is a consequence of multiple-choice tickbox 'education'. Don't understand anything, just tick the right answer.
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Old 21st May 2011, 05:44 PM   #30
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The actual illness is, the confidence with which we do wrong things that kill us. "We are educated, our education is right; we do Right Things, we Know that We Do Right Things". It reminds me banners in USSR: "Lenin's Theory Is Right Because It Is Immortal!"
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Last edited by Wavebourn; 21st May 2011 at 05:49 PM. Reason: grammar
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