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Old 20th January 2011, 09:22 PM   #21
SY is offline SY  United States
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I wouldn't call it a sub-clause. The usual term is "experimental use." See, for example 35 USC 271 (a) or the classic "The Law of Patents for Useful Inventions" (Robinson).
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:24 PM   #22
DF96 is online now DF96  England
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I think the get-out is that the patent holder can only claim on the basis of his commercial losses due to your infringement? He would have to show on the balance of probabilities that you would have bought one of his widgets instead of making your own. The bad publicity is not good for his public image (although that does not seem to stop the big boys from threatening small boys with similar business names).
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:27 PM   #23
SY is offline SY  United States
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Even so, if you practice an invention for the purpose of research, experimentation, or curiosity, it is generally not an infringement. If it can be shown that you practiced the invention to avoid paying a royalty or license, that's a different matter, sales or no.
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Old 20th January 2011, 09:38 PM   #24
AMV8 is offline AMV8  United Kingdom
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Hi
I am an engineer and a laywer. My legal work covers contract law and intellectual property rights.
The main problem with patenting an idea or retaining intellectual property rights in something is that if you are serious about your position you will need to consider going to court to enforce your rights. That could be expensive.
My employers do hold a number of engineering patents. However these days we rarely apply for patents but simply keep information private and ensure that we have confidelity provisions in place with anyone we discuss our ideas with. That way our information remains private.
If you place your ideas on diyaudio you are making the ideas available to diyers and it becomes public knowledge. You could probably still apply for a patent but I am not sure it helps much if the information is already public knowledge.
I just hope everyone keeps providing information to diyaudio without worying about patents as diyaudio provides a great service to amateur and professional audio diyers world wide.

Don
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Old 20th January 2011, 11:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by benb View Post
Dave, did the entity suing your company ever get a cent from you? Was their goal to get money or to put a competitor out of business, or do you even know?
No, they never got a cent. Beyond that, I think I best say no more.
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Old 21st January 2011, 12:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
I was involved as an expert witness in one case where a HUGE company (can't say who because of NDA, but I guarantee you use their products) was sued by an independent inventor who had put together a nuisance patent. The patent was clearly invalid, but after a year of discovery, depositions, expert witnesses, and a few tons of documents, the big company paid this guy $8 million to go away. He probably kept $4 million of it after contingency fees. I was told that he collected even more from Sony in a similar suit. Total bogus case, but very profitable.
I'll consider that an additional data point illustrating the dark side of patents.
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Old 21st January 2011, 05:55 PM   #27
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Everything started in the wrong way.

First.
I hit the wrong button. I should have chosen the Lounge Forum, not the Everything Else, for more than one reason. Please moderators, can you move this thread?

Second.
I didn’t mean to insult anyone here.
Quote:
The forum might decide to reward participants contributing to a patendable idea .

This can act as a motivation for more productive thinking and more positive participation attitude for the members.
Neither I thought it feasible to have the forum pay money to some participants, nor I implied that.
Rewarding doesn’t necessarily mean “financial reward” either.
(After all, we all have/had enough of real financial rewards in our regular jobs. Don’t/didn’t we? )

A T-Shirt with the forum’s logo stamped on it and some funny relevant writing like “You’re the 32nd on the Nerd’s list” - provided that the forum would develop such a list and the members would know it’s meaning- is a motivation. (I am old minded. I still value proper motivations).

Third.
I didn’t mean to upset anyone here, or to invoke any fear.
Quote:
I just hope everyone keeps providing information to diyaudio without worrying about patents as diyaudio provides a great service to amateur and professional audio diyers world wide.
My proposal (“Patenting by the diyaudio.com?”) fuelled your frustration for the patent system.
Although I don’t hold the patent system to a high esteem,
Results of M97xE mod
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I still believe that it serves a purpose.

But reading your posts which are based on your past traumatic encounter with the monster, made me think: It really sucks.

I was under the impression - I mean it - that it is only in Greece that we have the talent to screw thinks that bad.

I wonder, is there some Greeks that have intervened to make it work that way , or is it something else that deteriorated it’s functionality so much? *(PS 1)

In any case, if such a vital system does not function as intended, it has to be either repaired or replaced. *(PS 2)

The fine mixture of naivety and moronism that I possess and maintain - the one that forced me start this thread – has raised your blood pressure. May it too spark your ingenuity to find a way to cross-link this labyrinth *(PS 3)

All in all, my apologies for the tension I created.

Regards
George

*(PS 1) dS=dQ/T ?

*(PS 2) N/A for Greece

*(PS 3) :
SY wrote: "Second Law is a bitch."
SY wrote: " IP law is a bitch."
(Under the same context: My wife is a bitch.)
This leads to: IP law = Second Law: There is hope for Your creativity going forward. *(PS 4)
(This leads also to: Second Law = My wife: There is hope for me continuing practicing my hobby.)

*(PS 4) “Trade marking” maybe? (I hear it coming )
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Old 21st January 2011, 06:00 PM   #28
SY is offline SY  United States
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I'll move the thread, though it's not really out of place here.

My second wife was the Second Law incarnate. My third wife violates the Third Law in that she's pretty much perfect.
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Old 21st January 2011, 07:05 PM   #29
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Quote:
I'll move the thread, though it's not really out of place here.
Thank you.
It will make the life of the moderator easier.


Quote:
My second wife was the Second Law incarnate.
What a coincidence!
My wife - the one that I mentioned above – is my second one.

It’s this hate/love dipole of my feelings toward the Second Law that are so intense and similar with the reciprocal love/hate toward my wife that make me confident that I will not proceed to the third.

But just in case, you said the Third Law is….


Quote:
My third wife violates the Third Law in that she's pretty much perfect.
SY You left me speechless! Perpetua and Felicity

My complements


Regards
George
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Last edited by gpapag; 21st January 2011 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 21st January 2011, 07:16 PM   #30
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Hard to violate her

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsWqhLojez4
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File Type: jpg My Second Law.JPG (78.7 KB, 211 views)
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Last edited by gpapag; 21st January 2011 at 07:32 PM.
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