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Old 26th August 2012, 05:35 PM   #21
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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If you don't have the ability, TOUGH.
If you have the ability but don't produce results, train more and try harder.
Get caught cheating shows that you don't have the ability and also no MORALS.
This is true of anything, school exams, all forms of sport, busyness etc.
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Old 26th August 2012, 06:33 PM   #22
badman is offline badman  United States
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Get "caught" seems to indicate evidence. There's hearsay, and nothing else, at this point.

If the standard of evidence being applied to armstrong were applied equally, there would be no tour de france.
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Old 26th August 2012, 06:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underwurlde View Post
Better give Ben Johnson 'his' Gold Medal back then, aye?

Regardless of whether you agree with doping or not, if there are rules in place which are then disregarded, fair's fair, suffer the consequences if caught breaking those rules. If not, then hell, I'll hop on my scooter and win the next 6 Tour-De-France's!!!

But, whatever, we have Bradley Wiggins who I hope didn't have to resort to cheating.

Andy
I recently saw a documentary on the Ben Johnson race.
The guy who tested the samples still had them of all the athletes who competed in that race and retested them with modern equipment.
Turns out 6 of the 8 were doped, the highest placed clean runner was the brazilian. I think he came third after Johnsons disqualification.
The guy also said that a dead giveaway for the use of growth hormone was grown people suddenly wearing braces despite having had straight teeth without braces earlier. In the old footage one can see that a huge number of athletes back then wearing them including Carl Lewis.
He didn't make a great thing about it only because it's too long ago and too many athletes doped.
I kinda see the point as one would have to find the fastest looser from the semis to give the bronze to and his samples might not be around anymore.
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Old 26th August 2012, 07:10 PM   #24
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Default A horrible cultural tragedy

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Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
He had stage 3 testicular cancer, which means he lost one of them, but the body can compensate and he has fathered two more children naturally. I don't know if his natural testosterone level was high or low. He was an exceptional athlete.
Actually, he lost both of them. We was able to have children because they froze samples before the surgery. It's in his book "It's not about the Bike". Presumably, he was granted an exception for testosterone injections.

I think it's a horrible cultural tragedy for the US. I'm a cyclist, and raced at the amateur level when Armstrong was at his peak. He was an inspiration and role model for me and many other people. He was able to parlay that admiration into a very successful cancer charity. Now the role model is gone, and the future of the charity is in question. What is the lesson to be learned by young people who saw him as a role model?

It's not just Armstrong. All of my cycling friends think that they're all doping. Doping technology is always one step ahead of enforcement technology. Most of us regard professional cycling as a cynical joke. It's not just a blow to the sport of cycling, but a blow to every kid who looked up to Armstrong as a hero.
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Old 26th August 2012, 07:27 PM   #25
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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If the standard of evidence being applied to armstrong were applied equally, there would be no tour de france.
Well then, there should be no sport what so ever, or do we forget the recent re-testing of 'B' samples from the Los Angeles Olympics, which show that just about every competitor was doping. How about nulling the results for the last 90 odd years till 2011, I think we can all agree that 2012 edition with only one questionable test result can / could be considered clean.
Also...... when one has had cancer, one has to take very powerful drugs for years after, do these drugs act as a masking agent?
Who knows, personal thought on this is that this area has not been tested.
I repeat - IF Armstrong IS innocent then he should stand and say no, bring it on. By not standing up is almost as good as admitting to / being guilty.
And SPINELESS - what person doesn't defend their good name for god/gods sake?
If the legal system does not subpoena him then they are full of faeces.
Quote:
If you don't have the ability, TOUGH.
If you have the ability but don't produce results, train more and try harder.
Get caught cheating shows that you don't have the ability and also no MORALS.
This is true of anything, school exams, all forms of sport, busyness etc.
In the sense of every walk of life, generalised statement
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Old 26th August 2012, 07:45 PM   #26
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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Just saw you post Byron.......
I myself cycle, hold a cat3 road ticket this year through being ill and not being able to train hard enough.
I was accused of doping at the age of 15 after demolishing every one bar 1cat road men in time trials - one event the closest child was 7 or 8mins down.
Luckily a family friend stumped up the money for the test....... as a result I got the invite to try out for Team GB. Unfortunatly family circumstances took over and I only made 2 of the events that had selection staff there.
Later, my training partners elder brother turned pro, but never rode a race for his team after being told by the formers lawyer that he had to sign a second addition to his contract that stated 'you will accept assistance from team medical staff'.
Ie Dope.
Steve spent 5 years cycling with local clubs in Belgium, helping train the youngsters rather than compete at elite level and take drugs.
I personally believe that there is still a lot of doping in cycling, though the numbers of such are being reduced through better testing.
Will we ever be rid of doping in sport in general - never, not while the human condition prevails.
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Old 26th August 2012, 07:47 PM   #27
pidesd is offline pidesd  Canada
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call me crazy but...

us postal has the largest fleet of vehicles in the world, which consume petroleum obviously. i remember pictures of armstrong cycling with president Bush. One could have an interest in keeping US postal incomes healthy.
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Old 26th August 2012, 08:02 PM   #28
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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Hehe........
And Trek / Bontrager.
Why bother keeping people on your side if all your after is personal glory (at any cost), before, during or after the event?
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Old 26th August 2012, 08:05 PM   #29
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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I'm feeling nostalgic for the old days of the Tour when doping meant Guinness and Gauloise.
That's the stuff to keep a fellow going!
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Old 26th August 2012, 08:16 PM   #30
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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Ahhhh Pano,
Wool and chamois, Cane rims, gas tube frames and flip-flop fixed - My grand father was invited to ride Le Tour in that era, but decided to stay in the UK and look after his wife and child.
Mother tells me he was a fan of Maclesons stout, 2 the night before and one the evening after an event, while playing the piano (trained to concert standard) in his local pub.
Died of cancer, a sad end for a real northern hard man.
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