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Old 26th August 2012, 01:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
I do have to wonder, the type of cancer he has overcome and high hormone levels?

Wins and/or doping aside, I would still suggest his level of effort and determination was as high as it gets. A true athlete. Doping may have let him win, but in no way was it easier than the effort the next person put out. It is hard to have hero's fall. Especially when they are from Texas.
He had stage 3 testicular cancer, which means he lost one of them, but the body can compensate and he has fathered two more children naturally. I don't know if his natural testosterone level was high or low. He was an exceptional athlete.
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Old 26th August 2012, 01:06 PM   #12
jrenkin is offline jrenkin  United States
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I heard speculation on NPR about who would be the winners if Lance lost his titles. They were speaking with a French cycling expert or something. They guess that all the top ten competitors or more during that time had already been disqualified for doping.
So if Lance did dope, and I am not entirely sure he did, he won 7 tours against people who were also doping.
Level playing field...he still is the best cyclist and an awesome athlete. He was just working with the culture of the time
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Old 26th August 2012, 01:56 PM   #13
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I heard speculation on NPR about who would be the winners if Lance lost his titles. They were speaking with a French cycling expert or something. They guess that all the top ten competitors or more during that time had already been disqualified for doping.
So if Lance did dope, and I am not entirely sure he did, he won 7 tours against people who were also doping.
Level playing field...he still is the best cyclist and an awesome athlete. He was just working with the culture of the time
I don't have a problem with doping. I think the quest to have "clean" athletes is silly. I also think that the laws concerning anabolic steroids are completely stupid and are based on lies and misinformation. Putting testosterone in the same class of illegal drugs as cocaine and heroin is just mind boggingly stupid in my opinion. It's all thanks to Joe Biden, and some others.

So yeah, it's pretty funny that so many of the Tour de France competitors of the time were also disqualified for doping. They'll have to pick someone from 20th place or so to declare the "clean" winner.
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Old 26th August 2012, 02:26 PM   #14
sippy is offline sippy  United Kingdom
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He'd be more of a man if he stood up in court and fought his corner, as pointed out in a thread I started, what's going to happen to his charity funded by corporate sponsorship money?
IF he's innocent, then yes, what an amazing achivement and what a complete mess USADA have created, If guilty then the team management should be banned from all sporting activities as well.
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He was just working with the culture of the time
Does this make CHEATING RIGHT?
Considering his teams management at the time had come off the back of the Festina scandal, Tyler Hamilton being stripped of his US national RR title (under same management) and ditto for Alberto Contador, I personally remain very sceptical.
I still find it incredulous that USADA hasn't got its teeth into other American sports like Baseball and Football - MAYBE too scared to demolish kiddies hero's and cause corporate sponsors to loose vast sums of money and face.
Might seem as I'm anti USA - not at all, Steven Roache, who did the triple (TDF, Giro d'Italia and World RR) admitted to having doped should be stripped too........as should all cheats, no two year ban, BAN FOR LIFE.
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Old 26th August 2012, 03:33 PM   #15
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Well, like I said, I don't consider doping to be cheating and I think this whole area is just a witch hunt based on some Puritanical ideal of the perfect athlete. Calling people cheats is just a silly judgment in my opinion and it seems to come from some ideal fantasy of the natural born hero who triumphs over all when in reality sports is just entertainment and nothing more than that. Calling an athlete a cheat because they dope is EXACTLY the same thing as calling an actress a cheat because she got a boob job or a face lift. There is no difference in my opinion.

Last edited by dirkwright; 26th August 2012 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 26th August 2012, 04:32 PM   #16
pidesd is offline pidesd  Canada
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clean winning athletes are important because they are models and the way they train and race are regarded as recipes for ultimate performance. If the high council treat the using of drugs as ''normal'', then more people will use these drugs and new drugs will develop at the cost of health for the benefit of fame . Do we really want that sports become like ,say, formula one, where the team behind to tweak the ''car'' is taking a huge place in the result of the race.
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Old 26th August 2012, 04:47 PM   #17
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clean winning athletes are important because they are models and the way they train and race are regarded as recipes for ultimate performance. If the high council treat the using of drugs as ''normal'', then more people will use these drugs and new drugs will develop at the cost of health for the benefit of fame . Do we really want that sports become like ,say, formula one, where the team behind to tweak the ''car'' is taking a huge place in the result of the race.
Pfft. Dream on. It's already like Formula 1. It's just more entertainment and has the same value.
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Old 26th August 2012, 04:51 PM   #18
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Well, like I said, I don't consider doping to be cheating
Better give Ben Johnson 'his' Gold Medal back then, aye?

Regardless of whether you agree with doping or not, if there are rules in place which are then disregarded, fair's fair, suffer the consequences if caught breaking those rules. If not, then hell, I'll hop on my scooter and win the next 6 Tour-De-France's!!!

But, whatever, we have Bradley Wiggins who I hope didn't have to resort to cheating.

Andy
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Old 26th August 2012, 04:57 PM   #19
pidesd is offline pidesd  Canada
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It's just more entertainment and has the same value.
to each his own taste
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Old 26th August 2012, 05:10 PM   #20
pidesd is offline pidesd  Canada
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lok at me in the eyes, Dirkwright and tell me you find this beautiful.
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