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Old 21st January 2013, 03:32 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Carlp View Post
Have you been through cancer treatment mr_push_pull? Felt the ravages of chemo and radiation and had to recover from them? Do you have any idea what it does to your muscle structure and physical conditioning? I don't know much about what LA experienced, how it was treated, etc.. But a separate issue? I think not.
I read the book, thank you. we can come up with thousands of excuses. but he still cheated. this whole deal is a direct result of the actions he took willingly.

and one more thing. they say once a liar always a liar. maybe he's still lying about some things. just maybe, but the precedent exists. we all need to realize that he has an army of lawyers and the interview is not exactly the result of a tortured conscience but a very rational and likely carefully planned decision.
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Last edited by mr_push_pull; 21st January 2013 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:33 PM   #122
Mikett is offline Mikett  Canada
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Pro cycling is big business. All pro sports is big business. Bullying in pro hockey is encouraged . Let's review all the teams that won a series or games that used bullying and strip them of their wins because bullying is not right.

We should not hold up pro sports as a model of ethics and sportsmanship because we will be sorely disappointed. This Armstrong thing is just the tip of the iceberg in all pro sports.

pro sports are for placating the masses like what the roman emperors did with gladiators. It is there for societal and economic reasons. These guys live with a different set of standards just like a successful gladiator would have. Second place in that sport is highly overrated.
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:41 PM   #123
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We should not hold up pro sports as a model of ethics and sportsmanship
agree, but then the question is: what should we do?

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Let's review all the teams that won a series or games that used bullying and strip them of their wins because bullying is not right.
ok, let's do it.
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:45 PM   #124
Carlp is offline Carlp  United States
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I read the book, thank you. we can come up with thousands of excuses. but he still cheated. this whole deal is a direct result of the actions he took willingly.
I agree, but you said the cancer was a non-issue and I disagree about that (specifically, you said "what does it have to do with all this?"). More importantly, while I DO agree about the cheating and am disappointed in LA, I think all the hand-wringing unfairly singles him out.

I agree with Mikett and others. Unfortunately, I'm much more impressed with what the human body is capable of without chemical additives. Sadly, I am unlikely to ever witness that given the level of cheating now.

Maybe it's time for a "modest proposal." Have 2 leagues for each sport; a doping league and a "clean" league, then vigorously enforce the "clean" league. Let the athletes choose. I'm sure it'd be a mess at first, but my hopeful side thinks eventually most people would watch the "clean" league and the other would fade into obscurity.
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:53 PM   #125
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sadly, like I said in a previous reply, regular people need heroes (read supermen). I personally know a lot of people who watch pro sports because they want to see a guy kick major @ss, all the time. they want to see enhanced reality and at the same time make believe it is untouched reality. this is why I think the Hollywood analogy stands.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:00 PM   #126
lolo is offline lolo  France
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\

Please take your time and name the ones who struggled without taking drugs in the tour, err, I will give you 10 yrs to respond, so take your time and you can go back as far as Merckx ...
well, you seem to forget that the Tour is actually a reaaaaaalllly old competition that goes back a while before the drugs hysteria..
Anybody that did a really long bike ride knows how tough a sport it can be.
They are guilty, HE is guilty, but we also are, we expect too much from them.. Why not climbing the Himalaya, hey?! Whilst we watch with a beer in the sofa..
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:02 PM   #127
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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One summer I did Amsterdam - Warsaw on a bicycle. A Dutch bicycle without gears. It wasn't planned, I just felt like going for a ride but ended up in Warsaw. Average was 60km daily. I had some LSD with me but I didn't feel like taking it. I was just feeling trippy with the excellent weather and the exercise, no need to overdose. One day I was close to Hamburg but not close enough, 40 km left and was feeling pretty tired so I thought no way to get there before dark. That's when I remembered my LSD stash. Well, it was a terrible mistake because I got there alright on time but couldn't stop and did an extra 150 km....yeah it was all dark by then but didn't matter....I just had to keep going, glorious pedaling rhythm.....my internal chemistry was on a roll.....I even thought of getting to Berlin without stopping. That's what drugs can do for you.
dats some funny shhhite .....

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Originally Posted by Carlp View Post
I agree, but you said the cancer was a non-issue and I disagree about that (specifically, you said "what does it have to do with all this?"). More importantly, while I DO agree about the cheating and am disappointed in LA, I think all the hand-wringing unfairly singles him out.

I agree with Mikett and others. Unfortunately, I'm much more impressed with what the human body is capable of without chemical additives. Sadly, I am unlikely to ever witness that given the level of cheating now.

Maybe it's time for a "modest proposal." Have 2 leagues for each sport; a doping league and a "clean" league, then vigorously enforce the "clean" league. Let the athletes choose. I'm sure it'd be a mess at first, but my hopeful side thinks eventually most people would watch the "clean" league and the other would fade into obscurity.
Guess which would be the most popular ...

Body building does just that and the clean contest is not as popular, all of pro sports are full of dopers, I bet Serena Williams as well as many others could not pass the same Armstrong sniff test ..


Sad but true .....
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:20 PM   #128
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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All the money he won he earned it.
Well, Lance and his chemist. The TdF could cross promote with Nobel.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:24 PM   #129
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I was joking with a friend, let's just make them cyborgs and it will be XQF527 2.0 closely followed by MXK214 with 2 miles to go to to Col du Tourmalet.

one thing I don't get... did he not commit perjury by publicly confessing all this? I thought that was a serious offense in the US. just asking.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:25 PM   #130
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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well, you seem to forget that the Tour is actually a reaaaaaalllly old competition that goes back a while before the drugs hysteria..
Anybody that did a really long bike ride knows how tough a sport it can be.
They are guilty, HE is guilty, but we also are, we expect too much from them.. Why not climbing the Himalaya, hey?! Whilst we watch with a beer in the sofa..
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