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Old 21st January 2013, 03:03 PM   #111
lolo is offline lolo  France
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this was on the most read sport paper in France..

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I think it's time to change the title of this thread. Calling this guy a hero is an insult to the history of the competition and the ones who struggled on the Galibier (try driving up on the 3rd, or even 2nd gear!!) without drugs.

Obviously, mass media and $$$$ are the main cause for the Tour becoming a "show" and not only a sport event, pushing the need for drugs in. Do you want to see cyclists or gladiators on bikes?

BTW, I think one of the most challenging Tour would be Tour of Norway, I did 3000km there 10 years ago. Well, although amazingly beautiful, never again thanks!
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:28 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by lolo View Post
Obviously, mass media and $$$$ are the main cause for the Tour becoming a "show" and not only a sport event, pushing the need for drugs in. Do you want to see cyclists or gladiators on bikes?
there are a lot of people with a desperate need for heroes, I think those actually want gladiators on bikes.
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:46 PM   #113
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by lolo View Post
this was on the most read sport paper in France..

Click the image to open in full size.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I think it's time to change the title of this thread. Calling this guy a hero is an insult to the history of the competition and the ones who struggled on the Galibier (try driving up on the 3rd, or even 2nd gear!!) without drugs.

Obviously, mass media and $$$$ are the main cause for the Tour becoming a "show" and not only a sport event, pushing the need for drugs in. Do you want to see cyclists or gladiators on bikes?

BTW, I think one of the most challenging Tour would be Tour of Norway, I did 3000km there 10 years ago. Well, although amazingly beautiful, never again thanks!
\

Please take your time and name the ones who struggled without taking drugs in the tour, err, I will give you 10 yrs to respond, so take your time and you can go back as far as Merckx ...
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:48 PM   #114
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong sued by Sunday Times for 1million to recoup libel payout | Mail Online

And a texan company who paid him $12 million for winning the TdFs is said to file papers this week.
Only if their contract stipulates he had to be drug free when winning and the statute of limitations is 5 yrs from 2005 ....


So good luck on that ....
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Old 21st January 2013, 03:51 PM   #115
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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For me, this is just Hollywood. Saying that doping is cheating is no different to me than saying that breast implants in movie stars is cheating. Put your favorite bimbo on a pedestal and then find out she's completely fake. Someone will be disappointed. Of course, most of us are jaded by movie stars. So, the jading of sports heroes has begun... Thank God.

And, on the other hand, go back and watch movies from before the advent of plastic surgery. Notice the majority of women have what we would call "small" boobs. Of course, many of them wore corsets to get that wasp waist, but hey, they did what they could to look beautiful.
The Hypocrisy is off the scale and in this case retro-active .....
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:05 PM   #116
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so what's this about in the end?

a hero still being a hero? a hero needs to be real, otherwise just pick one from any Bruce Willis movie. that's the whole point of having a role model/hero/whatever you wanna call it, to look up to someone who was able to do it on his/her own and hope you can do it too. I can't see how anyone can still look up to him.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:12 PM   #117
Carlp is offline Carlp  United States
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Well, I'm no Lance Armstrong apologist, and I'm disappointed in him - more for taking so long to admit doping than for actually doing it (which is also disappointing). But c'mon:

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If Lance was racing a bunch of other dopers, and still won, shouldnt that still make him the winner? Lol.
Exactly. By all accounts (mostly annecdotal, but that's changing) virtually all TDF cyclists (and many others) dope. Almost certainly those at the top do. So it's a level (if illegal and immoral) playing field, and he still won 7 times. That still puts him at the top of the heap. Add to that the cancer factor and his accomplishments remain pretty incredible (whether or not the cancer was caused by doping - it's still a difficult thing to recover from). I think he still deserves some recognition for that. And is it cheating if it is virtually universally accepted AND tacitly approved by the authorities? How many of us have "cheated" by using illegal substances, by hiding our sales of audio equipment from IRS, etc. etc.? Let him who is without guilt cast the first stone.

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Lawyers are now drafting multiple lawsuits to have him pay up for all his lies, lying under oath and other bullying tactics.
Quote:
Disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong sued by Sunday Times for 1million to recoup libel payout | Mail Online

And a texan company who paid him $12 million for winning the TdFs is said to file papers this week.
This is one thing that really burns me. I mean, his sponsors made TONS of money using his name, and now they want more by suing him? Pot calling the kettle black. The slow unveiling of Armstrong's doping has given sponsors plenty of time to pull the plug gracefully and protect themselves from consumer backlash, so I am highly skeptical that any of them suffered any loss due to his sponsorships. They made a killing sponsoring him, so take the money and be happy about that.

Finally, all the vituperation aimed at LA is just plain misplaced. Be pissed at him, sure, but be pissed at ALL dopers equally, recognize that your favorite athletes of most sports probably are doping, and keep your anger at LA in it's place.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:20 PM   #118
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if I were to be really cynical, I'd say that I really don't get the cancer thing. what does it have to do with all this? he's a statistic. ok, he had a strong gene and he followed a treatment and (probably most important) got lucky. how does this change anything at all? separate issues.

imagine this wasn't about entertaining (this is what pro sports are to us, right?) but something serious like killing, stealing money from people or whatnot. it'd suddenly change perspectives.
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Last edited by mr_push_pull; 21st January 2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:27 PM   #119
Carlp is offline Carlp  United States
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Have you been through cancer treatment mr_push_pull? Felt the ravages of chemo and radiation and had to recover from them? Do you have any idea what it does to your muscle structure and physical conditioning? I don't know much about what LA experienced, how it was treated, etc.. But a separate issue? I think not.
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Old 21st January 2013, 04:27 PM   #120
Cassiel is offline Cassiel  Libya
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One summer I did Amsterdam - Warsaw on a bicycle. A Dutch bicycle without gears. It wasn't planned, I just felt like going for a ride but ended up in Warsaw. Average was 60km daily. I had some LSD with me but I didn't feel like taking it. I was just feeling trippy with the excellent weather and the exercise, no need to overdose. One day I was close to Hamburg but not close enough, 40 km left and was feeling pretty tired so I thought no way to get there before dark. That's when I remembered my LSD stash. Well, it was a terrible mistake because I got there alright on time but couldn't stop and did an extra 150 km....yeah it was all dark by then but didn't matter....I just had to keep going, glorious pedaling rhythm.....my internal chemistry was on a roll.....I even thought of getting to Berlin without stopping. That's what drugs can do for you.
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