Rod Elliott on GainCard and others - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th July 2003, 04:40 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Peter Daniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Send a message via AIM to Peter Daniel
Default Re: Rod Elliot isn't the only one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Christopher


Really? Which half?

Of course, the bigger half
__________________
www.audiosector.com
“Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC
 
Old 12th July 2003, 04:47 PM   #22
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Germany
Nuuk, you´re absolutely right.
By no means I want to get personal and or off-topic but only adress my reply clearly.

And in the end everybody should be able to express his opinions here. (hopefully about audio topics )
Kuei can hold his belly laughing about Rod´s article that´s OK.
But I also needed to hold mine reading his last sentence and I think that´s OK as well.

Sorry for being offtopic, go right on.

Jens
 
Old 12th July 2003, 05:20 PM   #23
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: US
Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Rod Elliott

Quote:
Originally posted by Kuei Yang Wang
He has not made any serious product that is sold through a retail cahin and done the homework on pricing etc.
Nor did Einstein or Newton. Does that mean you are smarter than either of them? or 1/100th of them, Mr. Personal-Attack?

We are talking about a piece of equipment, Sir. If you have anything constructive to add to it, and you think you have facts to refute Rod, I am all ears. Anything else, please keep it to yourself.

As a banker, I actually have no problem with anyone selling a $1 amp at $1million price tag: more power to him/her. It is the hype around those amps and the implicit (and sometimes not so implicit) suggestion that those amps have performance to match their price tags that bugs me.

Quote:
Originally posted by sobazz

I'll let the quotes speak for themselves.
And those quotes did an excellent job speaking for themselves and those behind them, .

Again, let's focus on the amp itself and let's focus on the facts, science,not the hypes. We all are here for pursuit of better sound, nothing else.

Or that's not true for some of us?
 
Old 12th July 2003, 05:22 PM   #24
diyAudio Retiree
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Spain or the pueblo of Los Angeles
Default Mr Elliotts views

Hmmmmmmmm...... Having the opinion that an amp based on two dollar power Op Amp and selling for several thousand bucks is marketing approaching fraud. I see cable prices in the thousands of dollars range with technical claims that ARE absolute fraud. You tell me who is doing the art and commerce of high end audio a bigger disservice.

Rod is selling PCBs on his own website. In contrast, I have seen numerous attempts to plug his PCBs on this and other forums by a certain individual from a cold certain European country. How many PCBs based on Mr. Pass's designs (and a simplified clone of one of his designs by someone who never even actually built and listened to it as near as I can tell)! have been flogged on this forum?

If someone wants to disagree with some of the tweakier aspects of high end design, it is their right, even if you don't agree with him. There are a hell of a lot of things in a system to get right before the FEET ON AN AMPLIFIER BECOME A MAJOR CONCERN. Someone who will do it on their own website, instead of starting a damn two week argument on this forum, probably deserves a medal. There is plenty of useful information on his website for tweakers and beginners alike. I see he withdrew the project close to the ASKA design. I imagine this might have been in deference to Hugh Dean, who I have never seen say anything bad about Mr. Elliot. If someone thinks that Rod has ripped off someone's design, name names if you think you have proof. As far as ap notes, THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE FOR. That's why they are called application note. Having spent about two years unscrewing a telecom product who's biggest flaw was not following the ap notes, I have a bit different perspective I guess.

I have been in the middle of many of these ******* contest on the forum and it serves no one, i can assure you. I have sat out of the arguments for a couple of weeks and seen them only become more vindictive and personal to the point that many don't even want to read the forum anymore, much less contribute anything that is going to start a three week ******* contest. I have outgrown this (I hope... I am trying damn hard anyway) idea that it amusing anymore. A large part of the forum is either chip amps or someone with a chip on his shoulder. I don't which is more boring at this point. If people don't start showing some self moderation and the moderators start kicking some butt for real instead of one or two days in the sin bin, there isn't going to be anything left, other than people using the forum to try to sell things. If Steve Eddy and I can do it, so can anyone else who deserves to stick around here.

All things must pass,

Fred
 
Old 12th July 2003, 05:33 PM   #25
Pedja is offline Pedja  Serbia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Belgrade
Default Rod Elliott presents Rod Elliott in "Mad As Hell"

In Rod’s doubts about the statements claiming “loss of the freshness of sound if energy supply depends on capacity of condensers”, I am with him.

Rod has objections about the GainCard’s price, and he is right, it is hugely overpriced…

But:

If Kimura did not sell his amp for all those $$$$, it would hardly happen anyone would notice his amp. It would hardly happen what in facts happens today – we build our gainclones … This is sad fact (of this life), but it is so.

Quote:
Originally posted by paulb
When an "argument" degenerates into personal attacks on one's educational background, you have to wonder if there is anything else backing it up.
Agreed, that was a classic example of what is in classic logic called an “argumentum ad hominem”.

Btw, reading Rod’s articles, I never got such trust in him to try anything he recommends or to forget anything he disqualifies…

Pedja
 
Old 12th July 2003, 05:43 PM   #26
Account Disabled
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: US
Default Re: Rod Elliott presents Rod Elliott in "Mad As Hell"

Quote:
Originally posted by Pedja
If Kimura did not sell his amp for all those $$$$, it would hardly happen anyone would notice his amp.

Pedja

I am not sure about it, Pedja. truth, any truth, will be discovered sooner or later. If Newton didn't see the falling apple, somebody else would and we would be naming Newton's law something else.

I am still not convinced that there is an extrordinary amount of performance in those chip amps (vis-a-vis discrete amps). It is after you factor in the ease of DIYing those chips, and their low prices (and others if you so desire) that the chip amps appeal to the DIY folks.

This is not to say that the chip amps are bad - they aren't.
 
Old 12th July 2003, 05:47 PM   #27
sam9 is offline sam9  United States
diyAudio Member
 
sam9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Left Coast
Unless, I'm mistaken (not unknown) IC based amps, commercial or DIY are limited in performance by the device itself. I.e., the best one can get is the the performance of the device under ideal operating conditions (perfect power supply, zero exposure to external EMI/RFI, zero xtalk from external connections etc.).

Based on building a LM3886 amp and a P3A, and observing the performance of each, I can see the source of Rod's aggravation.

If 47 Lab's product was sold on the basis of a pretty enclosure (functional sculpture) that would seem reasonable to me as much audio gear looks bland to ugly (per my tastes). If it was sold on the basis of verifiable and falsifiabnle performance gain that were known to be false that would be fraud. From the literature I've seen the GainCard is sold on neither basis but on what sounds to me like new-age/ psuedo-zen mumbo jumbo. Maybe their copywriter has been watching too much Star Wars and and wants to be Yoda.
 
Old 12th July 2003, 07:51 PM   #28
ojg is offline ojg
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Norway
I was going to stay out of the gainclones discussions, but I can't resist anymore. Here is a list of some of the integrated amplifiers you can buy for around $1500. However, most of these have unnecessary features such as input selectors...

In no particular order: (prices may vary, may cause drowsiness, ask your doctor before using and so forth...)
Rotel RA-1070 $1200 http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/ra1070.htm
Creek 5350SE $1500 http://www.creekaudio.com/products/5350.asp
Musical Fidelity A3.2 $1500 http://www.musicalfidelity.com/a3_2intamp.html#frameint
Classe CAP 101 $1600 http://www.classeaudio.com/IntampCAP...ampCAP101.html
Bryston B60 $1500 http://www.bryston.ca/b60cov.html

Any more?
 
Old 12th July 2003, 08:56 PM   #29
diyAudio Member
 
Peter Daniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Send a message via AIM to Peter Daniel
Quote:
Originally posted by ojg


Any more?
You are forgetting one thing, none of those amps has 30mm signal path. How much is this worth?
__________________
www.audiosector.com
“Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC
 
Old 12th July 2003, 09:13 PM   #30
diyAudio Member
 
chris ma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Pickering, Canada
There is no REAL over priced or under priced in non-essential goods. Amps are not like milk or bread that you must need to own. Ops I forgot that we are supposed to be fanatics, we need caps and resistors to sustain our carbon units.

Chris
 

Closed Thread


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rod Elliott's capacitance multiplier supply 454Casull Power Supplies 21 24th March 2010 01:40 PM
EMI Interference In Rod Elliott's DOZ Amplifier EchoWars Solid State 31 10th January 2005 11:08 PM
Trace Elliott schematic Jarno Tubes / Valves 1 15th July 2004 07:13 AM
A strange problem with Rod Elliott's P3A Kilentra Solid State 23 21st April 2004 10:44 AM
DAC, project 85 of Rod Elliott tschrama Digital Source 22 25th January 2002 12:27 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:16 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2