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Old 12th July 2003, 11:29 AM   #11
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
He was correct on two accounts at least. That
it is what else he is right on that is interesting, . How about his comments on resonance / vibration and good sounding resistors, for example.


Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel


I didn't noticed any of the above in the linked article.

you need to look a little bit harder then,

Seriously, I like my gainclone, as much as anything else I have made. as someone who had played with the stk's, tda2003 and 2030 from years ago, I was skeptical initially as how good the gainclone would sound. if you recall, I asked the question a month or so ago, and was told to build one. I built two. It was quite a surprise to me that this thing indeed sounds much better I had expected. power opamps have come a long way in the last 10-15 years.

I also experimented with my gainclones (mostly types of resistors, different values of resistors and caps). I noticed no experience that I could tell. Yes, it could be due to the fact that I am half deaf, .

I also find it funny to push the gainclone above and beyond what it is. The fact that 47Lab or Peter is selling it for thousands of dollars doesn't by itself assure anyone of us that this thing will sound great. My Parasound and Kenwood beat the gainclones hands down, for example. Rod's article gives you some indication how "silly" some of the comments / reviews (and in my view some of the comments made here with regards to the gainclone) are.

No matter how avid of a fan we are, let's not push the gainclone above and beyond what it is. the gainclones are good amps, but there are better ones out there.
 
Old 12th July 2003, 12:16 PM   #12
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
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Default Re: Re: Rod Elliott

Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by millwood


he does present a lot of convincing arguments, using facts, logic nad science.

you can not say the same about many of his critics, right?
You made me laugh SO HARD, my belly hurts.

FACTS? LOGIC? SCIENCE? I mean we ARE talking about Rod Elliott here, yes?

EVERYTHING he has put out in his comments is not even hearsay, but read/type. He NEVER had any of the gear he bashes in hand. He has not made any serious product that is sold through a retail cahin and done the homework on pricing etc.


Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Rasmussen
Hi Guys

As someone who lives in the same city as Rod and has crossed swords with him (a slight exxageration), may I say that Rod is a natural skeptic. But I do say that he has a solid background in teaching and is of the 'old school'.

His "Old School" is so old that5 when I pressed him once he was forced to admit to not having a formal, academic electronic eductaion. As much as I respect "self thought" guys, halve of the guff he spouts would not be written if he actually had a clue. Lastly, his habit to present commonly known and other peoples circuits on his pages WITHOUT aknowledging the origininators or sources and passing it all off as his "own" work cheeses me off no end.

When he starts to make sure he knows what he speaks of and when starts to give credit for the work to those who done the work, I might be tempted to take this maybe a little serious. Untill then I only see ignorance, inflated ego and ill will to others who have success.

Sayonara
 
Old 12th July 2003, 01:43 PM   #13
paulb is offline paulb  Canada
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Default Re: Re: Re: Rod Elliott

Quote:
Originally posted by Kuei Yang Wang
His "Old School" is so old that5 when I pressed him once he was forced to admit to not having a formal, academic electronic eductaion [sic].
When an "argument" degenerates into personal attacks on one's educational background, you have to wonder if there is anything else backing it up. I've heard the "I'm an engineer and you're not, so I must be right" statement before and what it really meant was, "I've got no confidence in my own abilities so I'll use my degree to cover it up."
Rod is actually quite favorable of the chip amp. A quote from him:
"From testing the prototype boards, I was a little more critical of everything than previously, and I have to revise my previous statement. The sound quality is excellent! As long as the protection circuitry is never allowed to operate, the performance is exemplary in all respects."
I think his problem is with the hype and black-magic crap that is used to sell stuff at exorbitant prices. Peter's amp does not have an outrageous price tag like some.
I've built a few chip amps, and they sounded pretty good. Easy for beginners. But for me, it's time to do, as Nelson says, "real DIY".
 
Old 12th July 2003, 01:51 PM   #14
bawang is offline bawang  Malaysia
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Ahem, Kuei Yang Wang, you do not have to "press" Rod to reveal that he does not have a formal electronics education, in fact, he already admitted so in his website.

Let's be honest with all of our own inflated egos and self righteousness, who is willing to share so much with the general public for free? Well, you can say that it's free publicity, but doesn't our beloved NP falls into the same boat with this assumption?

I am an Electrical Engineer and also a self-confessed Hi-Fi buff. I appreciate good designs and will tolerate most of what the golden eared circle dishes out, but there are times where one has to ask how much can one actually hear, another few more zeros after the decimal point.

I guess that an old-type/old school guy like me still has to use the so-called double-blind comparison as my ultimate weapon. And be flamed for my views....... I know what I hear, and so do all of you.......
 
Old 12th July 2003, 02:16 PM   #15
sobazz is offline sobazz  Denmark
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Quote:
EVERYTHING he has put out in his comments is not even hearsay, but read/type. He NEVER had any of the gear he bashes in hand. He has not made any serious product that is sold through a retail cahin and done the homework on pricing etc
and ...

Quote:
Untill then I only see ignorance, inflated ego and ill will to others who have success.
I'll let the quotes speak for themselves.
 
Old 12th July 2003, 03:04 PM   #16
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I dont think its appropriate to bash another indivual here....despite his education this indivual has an interest in audio and has shared his knowledge and time to a good website.
His point of views are his own and he has the right to say what the hell he wants on his web site....if you dont like it dont go there..thats the bottom line.
We all have our preferences on everything in life and the forums are to convey them and ask questions and give knowledge on what we know....when I see negative attitudes it makes me think that our society is digressive and not compassionate enough to value other peoples efforts.

DIRTŪ
 
Old 12th July 2003, 03:18 PM   #17
Previously: Kuei Yang Wang
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Konnichiwa,

Quote:
Originally posted by JOE DIRTŪ
I dont think its appropriate to bash another indivual here....despite his education this indivual has an interest in audio and has shared his knowledge and time to a good website.
His point of views are his own and he has the right to say what the hell he wants on his web site....if you dont like it dont go there..thats the bottom line.
I do not just object to Mr Elliotts views. Many of the circuits on his web-site are simply generic ones cribbed from a number of the basic Electronic Books or application notes (including at times certain "quirky" circuit touches or unusual values), yet he fails to aknowledge the sources and presents in effect other people work as his own and then proceeds to sell PCB's for these on a "for profit" basis.

That to me is ethically not a nice behaviour. When then the same individual who operates in such a manner for his profit and self aggrandisation starts quite rudely and often uninformed to criticise others, irregardless of the actual item being criticised (be it the Gaincard, Final Labs Amp, C37 Lacquer or cables) it is in my view not apropriate for that individual to do so.

Mr Elliot is welcome to hold any views he likes. He is especially welcome to the views he has often discussed and promoted (as they are usually by far to simplistic, in direct contradiction to basic electronic theory and ultimatly false), I do not want them.

However, IF I go and criticise others for simply making and selling a product that I consider overpriced I should make sure that I have my facts right and that I stand on clean moral highground.

And it is my main point that until Mr Elliot cleans up his act and fully aknowledges his sources in his Articles he is in a low and messy morass, not on high ground, morally. Of course, it may be expected that he who stands deep in the swamp will start throwing mud....

Sayonara
 
Old 12th July 2003, 04:10 PM   #18
joensd is offline joensd  Germany
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I donīt think likewise that Rod Elliot invented something entirely new which also doesnīt claim.
He experiments and edits circuits to his likes and in quite a few articles he also mentions the original authors.
What he does to DIY, I donīt think I need to tell you.
Also not, that a lot of people with quite a technical background like and build "his" circuits.
His PCBīs are also everthing else than overpriced.

I think you should really calm down a bit and stop throwing mud yourself Mr.Goodbye.

Cheers
Jens
 
Old 12th July 2003, 04:21 PM   #19
Nuuk is offline Nuuk  United Kingdom
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While I am not technically qualified enough to pass comment on Rod Elliot's views and his designs (or at least the ones he has on his site), I feel that it is only fair to point out that he has put an enormous amount of work into his website which has provided many people with a lot of help over the past few years.

For sheer content, it is probably the number one DIY hi-fi site and for that at least I am very grateful to him.

Everybody is entitled to their views, and of course others are entiltled to challenge those views but let's not get too critical of somebody who has given an awful lot to the DIY hi-fi world.

Almost without exception I have found hi-fi DIYers to be a very friendly and helpful community and I hope that it stays that way.

Those of us who know the Aussies well, know that just as they play sport, they argue to win but there's little animosity in their arguments, and mostly it's just for the fun of it.

So come on guys, let's support those that give us so much (and I'll certainly include K Y Jelly in that group ) and be a little less personal in our debates. After all, if we all agreed about everything, these forums wouldn't be half so interesting.
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The truth need not be veiled, for it veils itself from the eyes of the ignorant.
 
Old 12th July 2003, 04:26 PM   #20
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Default Rod Elliot isn't the only one.

When I read the review of the Final Labs stuff in Stereophile, I too was taken aback by the blatant "garbage justified by gobledygook" and poor engineering and construciton of the product. The fact that it could be recommended for anyone who hasn't got a stock of thousands of C cells they can't get rid of left me mortified. I never did write in my objections to Stereophile, but several others did.

So what is Elliot saying that he can't back up? How about an example or two of Mr Elliot's oversimplified analysis?

Quote:
halve of the guff he spouts would not be written if he actually had a clue.
Really? Which half?

Chris
 

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