Possibly the worst assumption in audio electronics - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 10th August 2010, 12:26 PM   #11
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7n7is View Post
Translation:
Wrong assumption -> people who study audio electronics know very little about
human hearing, but assume they know more about it then they really do.
Hi,

I a agree with you, and you yourself also fit into the above. I know a lot
about human hearing from my work with compression algorithms, human
speech processing and QoS in speech telephony networks. Your examples
are not realistic and you cannot draw reasonable conclusions from them.

The human ear is very easy to fool and notoriously unreliable as an analytical
tool, trouble is proper double blind listening tests are hideously expensive.

e.g. I read of "burn-in" periods of e.g.100 hours for a cartridge during which
it is supposed to improve, fair enough, but any individual who says from
their experience this is true is talking nonsense, they simply do not know.

But long term the ear is not so easy to fool, hence upgraditis, the constant
changing of stuff, to try to keep the ear fooled, but it gets used to it and
the apparent "reality" reduces. The best bet is to for high quality stuff.
Shop demonstrations are usually not a good way to buy hifi IMO.

/Sreten.
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Old 10th August 2010, 12:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7n7is View Post
...so many people have disagreements about audio electronics.
What? Like the one you're trying so hard to provoke here? Doncha know we've all had a bellyful of quick-draw artists looking for a fight?

w
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Old 10th August 2010, 12:38 PM   #13
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewT View Post
could you or anyone do the chalk trick for us?
Hint: the way he stated the problem, you can use the inverse square law. Assume that from 1 meter, the SPL will be 80dB (chalk isn't very loud). 10 miles = 16,000 meters, roughly.
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Old 10th August 2010, 12:46 PM   #14
akira is offline akira  France
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The size of a hydrogen atom is a couple a angstrom (in its fundamental state n=1) not 100 times less than an angstrom.
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Old 10th August 2010, 12:56 PM   #15
SY is offline SY  United States
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Radius of atom at n = 1 is 0.529 A. Bond length of H2 is 0.74 A. FWIW.

Now, what's the SPL of an 80dB/1M noise at a distance of 16,000 meters?
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Old 10th August 2010, 12:57 PM   #16
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Assumption : people who study human hearing know very little about audio electronics.
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Old 10th August 2010, 01:15 PM   #17
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
Assumption : people who study human hearing know very little about audio electronics.
Hi,

No, not really. That have to know a lot about signal processing in general.
They would e.g. understand MP3 far better than most audio electronics buffs.

This especially applies to those who work in the hearing aid industry and
more generally the ear and mouth interface for telephony devices. How
many people understand all the speech processing in a mobile phone ?
(And its lots, and I mean lots.)

/Sreten.

At ten miles a source of 80dB is completely inaudible, it is ridiculously below threshold.
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Old 10th August 2010, 05:47 PM   #18
Cassiel is offline Cassiel  Libya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakibaki View Post
What? Like the one you're trying so hard to provoke here? Doncha know we've all had a bellyful of quick-draw artists looking for a fight?

w
Disagreements are not provoked, they just exist and if you don't like them I'd suggest you to stop reading threads like this, it will save you from reading my disagreement with you about comments like "looking for a fight" and "we've all had a bellyful".

Quote:
But long term the ear is not so easy to fool
I agree. The sound of a new amp may fool me for a day but not for a week. In that sense audio amps are a bit like women, you have to live with them to find out if they're any good. That's why diy audio works in the long term - you always end up finding something good enough for you.
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Old 10th August 2010, 06:00 PM   #19
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Hydrogen atom:
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10th August 2010, 08:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Now, what's the SPL of an 80dB/1M noise at a distance of 16,000 meters?
OK, you are hinting that it is inverse square because he has phrased the question as theoretically near-field? 80/(16,000)^2 = roughly 3E-7 dB.
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