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Old 22nd May 2010, 01:56 PM   #1
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Default Most idiotic statement in Audio history...

"In controlled double-blind listening tests, no one has ever (yes, ever!) heard a difference between two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat response, low distortion, and low noise."
Peter Aczel

This is ignorance on the highest possible level. I have friends in the recording industry & friends playing professionally classical music etc. We all have done several blind tests in the last 15 years with shocking differences in amplifier reproduction. This really is an insane statement. Unbelievable!
 
Old 22nd May 2010, 02:44 PM   #2
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OK, I let this one pass. But you're just asking for trouble here. If it gets nasty, the tread will be closed.
 
Old 22nd May 2010, 03:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornTube View Post
We all have done several blind tests in the last 15 years with shocking differences in amplifier reproduction. This really is an insane statement. Unbelievable!
Could you provide details on test setup, controls, and scoring? Thanks.
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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:04 PM   #4
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Well, who is this Peter Aczel anyway?

I am sure there are differences, even with similaily priced product. But, I believe that for these tests, they should only blinfold audience who play non-amplified accoustical instruments.

My CAN$ 0.02, E
 
Old 22nd May 2010, 05:09 PM   #5
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymoose View Post
Well, who is this Peter Aczel anyway?
Editor, "The Audio Critic."
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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornTube View Post
"In controlled double-blind listening tests, no one has ever (yes, ever!) heard a difference between two amplifiers with high input impedance, low output impedance, flat response, low distortion, and low noise."
Peter Aczel

This is ignorance on the highest possible level. I have friends in the recording industry & friends playing professionally classical music etc. We all have done several blind tests in the last 15 years with shocking differences in amplifier reproduction. This really is an insane statement. Unbelievable!
Oh heck. I'll say something...and I usually avoid threads such as this one like the plague.

1. He qualified his statement well: double blind, low output impedance, high input impedance, flat response, low distortion and no noise. These are all equalizing factors ensuring that the two amps will sound the same.

2. His statement lends credibility to itself because if you know what those things are you can set up the test to repeat it, at least somewhat close to his conditions.

Your statement, however, does not represent a rebuttal, and I don't know what boundry conditions you tested under. Were you comparing a 300B SET to a Halcro? A DIY amplifier that might have marginal stability at best to a well designed amp?

I don't think his statement is idiotic at all. I remember going to a CES where someone was selling little cardboard tri-pods that lifted speaker cables off the floor 3" to protect them from "the earths harmful magnetic radiation which induces asymmetrical wavefront distortion." That one set the bar pretty high.

Scott
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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:22 PM   #7
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who cares for that issue , anyway ?
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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:36 PM   #8
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The error in this thought is that it implies that distortion can be quantified as easily as the other parameters. There were investigations at the Technical University Berlin where they found that the worst kind of distortion are the subtractive components of IMD. And from this point of view most of these low output impedance, high damping factor beasts looked quite poor. Then they designed an amp optimized to this criterion - a valve amp.
 
Old 22nd May 2010, 06:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el`Ol View Post
The error in this thought is that it implies that distortion can be quantified as easily as the other parameters. There were investigations at the Technical University Berlin where they found that the worst kind of distortion are the subtractive components of IMD. And from this point of view most of these low output impedance, high damping factor beasts looked quite poor. Then they designed an amp optimized to this criterion - a valve amp.
Do you have a reference for the study...that would be something I would be interested in....

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Old 22nd May 2010, 06:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by panomaniac View Post
But you're just asking for trouble here.
Let's see if we can avoid turning this into the next cable's thread.

dave
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