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Old 15th December 2009, 10:07 AM   #101
GTHICM is offline GTHICM  United States
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Default Porsche or no Porsche, is that the question?

This is a really entertaining thread, combining two great interests, car and audio, but not necessarily comined in one, as sound system in car. I now live in Vietnam, where one does not want to drive anything nice and fast, but it does give one more time to mess about with audio stuff.

As to Bybees, I am not convinced they add anything of value to automotive or audio advancement. As to audio, it is just the lack of data out there, but as to automotive, I feel more comfrotable to comment, especially with respect to Porsches.

I have owned a number of 911 Porsches, as well as a Detomasso Pantera, Alfa Romeo, BMW 2002, MG TD, Triumph TR6, Jaguar XK120 OTS and some others I have forgotten about. My experience is fairly deep. I was crew chief on an SCCA Trans Am team in 1978, running an ex-factory Lemans Carrera with all the good stuff, including Bosch mechanical fuel injection with slide valve throttle bodies. I have built probably 30 to 40 Porsche engines and transaxles, from 911, 912 to 356 and 914. I stripped and rebuilt my 1973 911 Targa and modified it to a 2.7 litre mechanical injection motor with S cams and twin plugs, and rebuilt the aforementioned Jaguar, frame up, from boxes of parts and rust I purchased from one guy's abandoned project. I also have worked on 904s, 911-6 GTs and a lot of other exotica, including Ferraris, a Lotus Europa twincam, a 1932 blown Alfa Romeo, Lamborghini Miura and Countachs, to name a few. I have also set up countless triple trouble Webers and struggled with fouled plugs while attempting to get the jetting, choke and emulsion tubes right.

I guess the above allows me some lattitude to comment on ignitions. In point of fact, getting clean burn is obviously critical to maxing out performance. Once clean burn is achieved at the stochiometric ratio, I can see little advantage in spending any real amount of money on super ignition stuff or Bybee purifiers, if indeed they do anything really beneficial, which I doubt. The propagation of the flame front in the combustion chamber within the extremely small amount of time between piston cycles, especially at high revs, seems the limiting factor to ignition performance. Rather, multiple different placed ignition sources, for example twin plugs per cylinder, allow two flame fronts to propogate, thus increasing power. Race engines, Porsche included, utilize this technology.

As to when a car is a Porsche or not a Porsche, is a question better asked around the ubiquitous 914, marketed in Europe as a VW and the US as a Porsche. To cloud the issue further, what is a 914-6, with a 2 litre Porsche 911 engine squeezed in, or better yet the 914-6 GT? I don't really know, but a hell of a lot of fun to drive that goes like stink, especially the 914-6 variant, with twin ignition fired by a Marelli distributor similar to a Ferari V-12 unit, but obviously different rotor and cap.

To me, it matters not what you want to classify it as, but what it does for you. Also to me, ignition "enhancements", like the Bybee units, are not worth it. Show me independent dyno charts under controlled, verifiable and repeatable conditions, and I would reconsider. I am skeptical of these Bybee things. One thing is for certain though, John Curl seems a pretty tolerant guy to take the criticisms and keep a decent attitude. Of all this, that seems most true and accurate.
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Old 15th December 2009, 11:19 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by GTHICM View Post
[snip]
To me, it matters not what you want to classify it as, but what it does for you. Also to me, ignition "enhancements", like the Bybee units, are not worth it. Show me independent dyno charts under controlled, verifiable and repeatable conditions, and I would reconsider. I am skeptical of these Bybee things.
[snip]
How about a double blind test?
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Old 15th December 2009, 11:58 AM   #103
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I just recall passive 'spark impulse enhancers' - a hoax being sold in the seventies ...
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Old 15th December 2009, 01:07 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I never owned a "sports car" so I don't know what it's like. My 1974 Gremlin does not count? I put 100,00 miles on it until the ball joints gave out.

I've got a little pocket book entitled "The Worlds Worst Cars". The AMC Gremlin is #1 in the "Design Disasters" chapter.

Presumably, goin’ by your obvious lack of taste, if you were looking for a larger car at the time you would have bought the equally hideous Pacer?
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Old 15th December 2009, 01:35 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
all those languages
Lingos are pretty remarkable, not merely divided by geographics, but also time and individual bound.

For instance, take Mr Stuart's signature.
A WW2 monument line by an outstanding gent, also poet and founder of a small quality weekly newspaper* overhere.
Truly beautiful words with the scent of ancient, almost forgotten times.
Ipod youngsters nowadays, all with combo of visible underwear and trousers barely hanging on their lower hips, would likely read those same words as : If you bend over you'll loose more than just your knickers.

Then again, a hick like me scored straight A's for math but never managed anything but C's for my native tongue.

(* also had really kinky sex ads in the small section pages in pre-2k )
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Old 15th December 2009, 01:53 PM   #106
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Jacco, thx for the translation.
(@Cal, this is NOT an exact one )
Below the WW-II monument:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg randwijk15a.jpg (37.5 KB, 203 views)
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Old 15th December 2009, 02:06 PM   #107
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Well done, Tony. I am glad to see a significant percentage of people actually knowing how to work on and modify cars. I've been at it for 50 years, first with my Mom's '54 Chevy with dual carbs and dual exhausts, then repairing the Renault Dauphine, almost constantly for about 5 years, having to tune the twin SU's, live with the racing exhaust, and trying out a sport coil in the Sprite, and finally living with an added dual exhaust, Sport Coil,dual Weber carb, milled heads, 3/4 cam, stronger valve springs, and Koni Shocks in the '68 SAAB Sonnet.
It is as much a learning experience, as people here find with audio design.
I remember when I tried to get a sample transistor from Delco to make my first electronic Ignition. The woman on the other side of the phone had heard it before, from people like me, and gently reminded me that the Delco DTS-431 cost: $100 each, so no samples, without good cause. We were already using the DTS-423 at work, were we made a high voltage switching supply, and I had to live with that.
Do you see everyone, there is engineering everywhere, tweaking just to find out what happens, even looking at the JC Whitney Catalog and wonder if some of those gizmos really work? (It's possible)
Over the decades I have tried just about every chemical additive, Marvel Mystery Oil is in a small container, by my side, as well as exotic contact enhancer from an old audio friend, WD40, and Caig contact Deoxit, that I used, just last night to improve my telephone contacts.
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Old 15th December 2009, 02:10 PM   #108
GK is offline GK  Australia
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
Long gone, got $600 toward a 1981 Citation.

LAMO

I just looked that one up in the index - Chevrolet Citation (1980-1986), #7 in the "Badly Built" chapter.

Problems:
Engine oil consumption
Overly tight brake hoses prone to rupture (brake failure)
Oversteer (+overly light steering)
Rust (missing underseal)
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Old 15th December 2009, 02:33 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
La grande motte is a beach holiday resort, a miniature Ft Lauderdale.
... so it was a cool place for a press release (photo shoot)
Ah yes, thanks. The cool location for a photo shoot makes sense. And I guess there aren't too many German beaches like that.

Funny, I used to work in Lauderdale. Haven't been back in 30 years.

My first 2 cars were the 1959 VW "Bug" and the 1959 Jaguar MKI 3.4L "Saloon". Did a lot of work on those cars. Not performance upgrades, just to keep them running! That's one way to learn.

I think a lot of DIY audio types also get their hands dirty with cars. It's all DIY.
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Old 15th December 2009, 02:41 PM   #110
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GTHICM, VERY GOOD INPUT. You have been around cars, that is for sure. When it comes to Bybee's, that appears to be misinformation put here that Bybees have ANYTHING to do with auto ignition performance. They are confusing it with Shakti Stones, which can potentially be used in automotive applications as an RF-interference filter for data lines from the engine, and protection for the computer chip running the engine. There are DYNO measurements showing this, on their website. I will ask Jack Bybee about it, when he wakes up this morning, in an hour or two.
Jack Bybee used to own an auto chip company that he sold out a couple decades ago, to some other outfit. I will have to ask him about which company that is.
The Sequerra spark plugs are interesting, because they have an additional pellet of Thoriated, (or its practical equivalent) steel, welded on the tip return path (I don't know what else to call it). This apparently allows for a larger working gap, 3 times larger, for the same gap breakdown voltage. For marginal car combustion chambers and ignitions, this can be a good tweak.
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