well the cardas are a pretty good replacement for the neutrik (which I think are very good as they are) but they dont have a latch, however i've never had any issue with cables pulling out (anyone using 5kg XLR cables doesnt have much grounds for complaint). the furutech top of the line have a weird hole pattern and the tolerance isnt that great, very tight, but I havent used their latest one which I think might fit and is PCB mount. they look much better than their more expensive model IMO
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Actually this is one case where those expensive wood cable blocks are worth their money & improve sound
SY you can make yourself even more popular by recommending another purchase to your boss, this time one that fixes your earlier bum recommendation
jan
This amp is MADE TO A PRICE. That is why they chose a cheaper connector that I would have used, if I personally built it, or regulated its layout and specific parts, like we did for the JC-1 and the JC-2, for instance. The JC series represent the 'hi end' contribution from Parasound and they are fine 'bargains' compared to much in the hi end community. They are designed to win 'listening contests'. The A-21 and the A-23, while they have similar topology to the JC-1 are stripped as bare as possible, in order to be cost effective. You see, many people do NOT believe me wise, when I insist on a Neutrik connector for the JC series. What's the difference, they say, except extra cost? I think it is important to use a good connector, and I have no idea why they used a balanced connector without a latch. However, you get what you pay for, and I can't do anything about it without the specific consent and cooperation from Parasound, who thinks the criticism absurd.
PMA, you are not being helpful, here. Perhaps you should admit that you are a competitor, now. Personally, I prefer to get along with my 'competition' because I think it is the 'professional' thing to do. You don't see me 'knocking' Ayre or Nelson Pass do you? Do you think I approve of each and everything that they make and do? Of course not, but it is not my PLACE to criticize them directly, and I deliberately refrain from doing so. Please take this advice under consideration.
PMA, you are not being helpful, here. Perhaps you should admit that you are a competitor, now. Personally, I prefer to get along with my 'competition' because I think it is the 'professional' thing to do. You don't see me 'knocking' Ayre or Nelson Pass do you? Do you think I approve of each and everything that they make and do? Of course not, but it is not my PLACE to criticize them directly, and I deliberately refrain from doing so. Please take this advice under consideration.
John, as an exercise, if you designed a unit as an all-out assault on the SOTA, and then had to create a half price version, and a quarter price version, etc, what specific areas or parts would be "compromised" to get the price reduction. And how would you assess this: by acquired knowledge, or intensive listening assessment, or a combination of the two?
Frank
Frank
John, I am not any competitor. Since the beginning of the year 2012 I am not involved in audio sales, production and also not paid for designs. I make a living in a completely different field than audio business. My only audio activity now is that I have offered to public a free open project of MM phono preamplifier, with negative profit, just to share some knowledge.
I consider you as a very good, probably excellent audio designer. But I want to stay neutral. That means, if I consider some engineering idea wrong and can prove it, I will do it. Same for choice of connectors in JC-1 and A21. It is not your fault, but Parasound's fault, so I do not understand why you have troubles to digest if I mention the parts are quite poor, and they made issues to SY's customer. This is an open space, open forum and as such we should exchange our ideas and knowledge without any pressure. This is not a political campaign, so let's stay in technical, engineering and scientific level if possible.
Please try to be not so much suspicious.
Let's stay technical. After all those posts about unobtainium relays with plain gold contacts etc..., i wonder how you can satisfy yourself with poor contacts in the most important place of an amp produced under your signature: the input signal.
The problem is not that there is no lock on the XLR, the problem is there is not enough contact pressure to ensure good contacts as well as mechanical positioning.
If it is so, for some reason, i suppose Parasound can consider-it as a breakdown of this XLR component.
You said it is a reduced price production. Well, i would have save money with the enclosure design, plain aluminum, etc. Not electronic, including connector's quality.
I was in concern with such a situation, long time ago, to design a cheap version of an amp. The answer was: reduced power, changes of volume contactors by potentiometers, use of less expensive printed circuits here or there. But no changes if that had an obvious consequence on the sound quality.
An input plug that disconnect have consequences on the sound quality
I wonder why, John, do you react that way: "Buy a Crown". It means Crown offers better quality for the price ?
If i understand well, you are not responsible at all about that, just a consultant which designed the electronic ? So what ? I would had try to call Parasound to help the exchange of this amps, because it is better for both Parasound image (it is on Gougle now) , and your own reputation as well.
They make reference to you " Designed by The Legendary John Curl".
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We had a problem, at a time, with one of our customers situated just under Eiffel Tower, where are all the TV and radio emitters.
He was receiving radio by the pre-amplifier. Well, we decided to send somebody from the R&D department to solve his problem. Although our manufacture was 100 miles from Paris.
For two reasons: It was good for our image and it was a good way to avoid radio detection in future production.
Result, our client was so proud we send a engineer, just to solve his own problem, that he told the story to a journalist and we had an article in a newspaper about the care we given to our customers.
After sale service had never any more any return for radio detection after some changes in our production.
How to spend 3 time the price of the amp (travel+effort), acquire knowledge, and save 3 time the price of a commercial in newspaper.
Or, how to get benefit of a negative accident.
He was receiving radio by the pre-amplifier. Well, we decided to send somebody from the R&D department to solve his problem. Although our manufacture was 100 miles from Paris.
For two reasons: It was good for our image and it was a good way to avoid radio detection in future production.
Result, our client was so proud we send a engineer, just to solve his own problem, that he told the story to a journalist and we had an article in a newspaper about the care we given to our customers.
After sale service had never any more any return for radio detection after some changes in our production.
How to spend 3 time the price of the amp (travel+effort), acquire knowledge, and save 3 time the price of a commercial in newspaper.
Or, how to get benefit of a negative accident.
Parasound decided differently. They refused to respond IN THIS CASE. Perhaps, they had better things to do, perhaps their hands were tied. IF there is a manufacturing defect, then the amp could be repaired under warranty. However, factory pictures of the amp show that the connector for the A21 has no latch. If a number of people had independently complained (for good reasons) that this was a problem, then Parasound would most likely respond. But apparently one instance where a customer was 'ticked off' enough to hassle the designer of the schematic, in order to get special treatment, was 'a bridge too far'.
There is more to this 'story' than one disgruntled customer.
This is sort of the dividing line where my authority ends and Taiwan takes over. I would have preferred a Neutrik, but not necessarily a latching one, myself.
When the first runs of JC-1's were put out, my late business partner, Bob Crump, had a fit, when the JC-1 that came to him did not have Neutrik xlr connectors.
My boss and he, had it out, my boss (the same guy as yesterday) noting that it was an oversight by the Taiwanese factory, maintained that it didn't make much difference, as far as they were concerned, so what's the big deal?
Well Bob Crump was assigned to make this amp win listening contests, and he knew the difference between the connectors both sonically and materially (just apply a magnet), and he threatened to quit, if his input was ignored, and that he should not tell others about the problem. Thank goodness, he didn't, and we still had him around to look over the JC-2 preamp, that would have suffered the same fate as many earlier preamp designs, if he was again ignored. This is why this is important to me.
There is more to this 'story' than one disgruntled customer.
This is sort of the dividing line where my authority ends and Taiwan takes over. I would have preferred a Neutrik, but not necessarily a latching one, myself.
When the first runs of JC-1's were put out, my late business partner, Bob Crump, had a fit, when the JC-1 that came to him did not have Neutrik xlr connectors.
My boss and he, had it out, my boss (the same guy as yesterday) noting that it was an oversight by the Taiwanese factory, maintained that it didn't make much difference, as far as they were concerned, so what's the big deal?
Well Bob Crump was assigned to make this amp win listening contests, and he knew the difference between the connectors both sonically and materially (just apply a magnet), and he threatened to quit, if his input was ignored, and that he should not tell others about the problem. Thank goodness, he didn't, and we still had him around to look over the JC-2 preamp, that would have suffered the same fate as many earlier preamp designs, if he was again ignored. This is why this is important to me.
Bad cable XLR ??
Assumptions will always get you ---> The assumption is that the problem is only with the amps XLR. How about the cable's XLR? You guys surely know there is a IEC dimension spec/standard for the physical XLR? Are the cable XLR pins bad or too small or worn? Thx-RNMarsh
Assumptions will always get you ---> The assumption is that the problem is only with the amps XLR. How about the cable's XLR? You guys surely know there is a IEC dimension spec/standard for the physical XLR? Are the cable XLR pins bad or too small or worn? Thx-RNMarsh
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May-be, you presented the problem to Parasound in a bad way, John. Like about the lack of latch on the connector, while the problem is those connectors have holes too large to maintain both good contacts and cable in place ? That is, at evidence, a manufacturing defect *if the cables are not too heavy, and cables connectors of standard diameters*.
This happens often by wear in PA systems, the only professional solution is to change the connector. Even if there is a working latch, because poor contacts.
With a brand new material, under warranty, i would not appreciate the manufacturer do not face up to its responsibilities.
SY was clear about, and his remark about latch was 'theoretical', while he said that Berhinger have XLR with no latchs, but ok for home use, that i confim.
And notice too that SY was just talking about, not asking-you any personal intervention.
So why to say "hassle the designer of the schematic" ?
Well, i believe his Boss has just to bring-back the amps where he bought them, show them the problem, and ask for a fix.
This happens often by wear in PA systems, the only professional solution is to change the connector. Even if there is a working latch, because poor contacts.
With a brand new material, under warranty, i would not appreciate the manufacturer do not face up to its responsibilities.
SY was clear about, and his remark about latch was 'theoretical', while he said that Berhinger have XLR with no latchs, but ok for home use, that i confim.
And notice too that SY was just talking about, not asking-you any personal intervention.
So why to say "hassle the designer of the schematic" ?
Well, i believe his Boss has just to bring-back the amps where he bought them, show them the problem, and ask for a fix.
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I can't believe that with the brain power here nobody has just suggested that the XLR cables be helped out with some simple cable clips. They have some that are very inexpensive with adhesive backs that you can attach to either the amp itself or the shelf the unit is sitting on. Are we such primadonna's that we can't come up with a simple fix instead of ranting about a simple problem? Yes they should have used a locking connector, but they didn't. Now do we throw out a perfectly functional amplifier because the cables must be hanging with all the weight on the connector, would you do this yourself if you knew that the connector was not locked in place? I wouldn't wan t to lose my warranty by modifying the amp, but I would quickly get pissed enough after this happened a few times to come up with a solution.
John.If I am reading your posts correctly this is not one of your designs? Are only the JC labeled products your design, or are others using your designs without using your name to market them? I for one wouldn't blame you when somebody else tries to cut corners on a product at the manufacturing stage but wouldn't allow my name to be used if I didn't have some input on the final implementation of the product. But you also should use a little bit of tact when someone has recommended a product based on your reputation, that is just shooting yourself in the foot and not going to make you any friends here. The atmosphere is already heated enough around here with the regular invective by a few. Yes I understand that some of you do not agree with John's design philosophies or implementation, but he does get his designs out into the wild, unlike most of what we do here for ourselves. He wouldn't be asked to do a design if his products did not bring in the bacon so to speak.
Sy,
Here is a link to a simple solution. Can't believe nobody else said anything!
Adhesive Backed Wire Clips - .250" Diameter / 50 Pack : 20039
John.If I am reading your posts correctly this is not one of your designs? Are only the JC labeled products your design, or are others using your designs without using your name to market them? I for one wouldn't blame you when somebody else tries to cut corners on a product at the manufacturing stage but wouldn't allow my name to be used if I didn't have some input on the final implementation of the product. But you also should use a little bit of tact when someone has recommended a product based on your reputation, that is just shooting yourself in the foot and not going to make you any friends here. The atmosphere is already heated enough around here with the regular invective by a few. Yes I understand that some of you do not agree with John's design philosophies or implementation, but he does get his designs out into the wild, unlike most of what we do here for ourselves. He wouldn't be asked to do a design if his products did not bring in the bacon so to speak.
Sy,
Here is a link to a simple solution. Can't believe nobody else said anything!
Adhesive Backed Wire Clips - .250" Diameter / 50 Pack : 20039
Kindhorman, please read the 1st sentence in the official A21 Parasound webpage:
Product Lines > Halo > A 21 Two Channel Power Amplifier
"Circuitry designed by legendary John Curl"
Product Lines > Halo > A 21 Two Channel Power Amplifier
"Circuitry designed by legendary John Curl"
PMA,
Yes after I posted I picked up on that fact. Sometimes as I am writing multiple replies are happening while writing a post! Sorry for that. It would appear if Parasound cared half as much about product quality as appearances that this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I be that case cost much more than the cost of a large portion of the electronics in the amplifier. This is one of those instances where we can see where the market that Parasound is directed at is mostly marketing driven. To save perhaps a dollar or two on connectors is silly. I would have a taking to with the buyer if that was my company and my companies reputation.
Yes after I posted I picked up on that fact. Sometimes as I am writing multiple replies are happening while writing a post! Sorry for that. It would appear if Parasound cared half as much about product quality as appearances that this sort of thing wouldn't happen. I be that case cost much more than the cost of a large portion of the electronics in the amplifier. This is one of those instances where we can see where the market that Parasound is directed at is mostly marketing driven. To save perhaps a dollar or two on connectors is silly. I would have a taking to with the buyer if that was my company and my companies reputation.
On the subject of XLR connectors.
In ANY OTHER CONTEXT, the very idea of insisting on Neutrik or locking connectors would be laughed at here as absurd and extra costly.
For decades, Parasound has made amps and preamps with 'knockoff' connectors, and before the JC-1, even the most expensive designs by me or anyone else, were with 'knockoff' connectors. It was only with the JC-series that we made a stand. The Taiwanese think we are 'nuts' to NOT use 'knockoff' connectors, and only with threats from my late business partner, Bob Crump and me, they would put 'knockoff' connectors on the JC-series too. I didn't take notice that the A-21 had a 'knockoff' connector, they all look the same to me, without close inspection. Personally, at this time, the Parasound amp that I am using, the HCA2500, uses a 'knockoff' XLR connector. I do not consider this amp the best I have ever had in my home system, but I broke the modified HCA-3500 that did sound better, by accidently spilling a cup of coffee into it. I sent it to Parasound to repair, and they ultimately threw it away, and gave me a couple of JC-1's, instead. However, the JC-1's are too powerful for my system, so I sold them to Jack Bybee, and stuck with the back-up prototype, the HCA-2500, and I am still using it today.
At this time I am designing a first class power amp (for another company) that will be rated about 250W/channel, and it will cost plenty, BUT it will have everything that I can throw at it, and I will be very happy to use it.
FOR THE MONEY, the A-21 is a very fine product, and I am proud of it.
In ANY OTHER CONTEXT, the very idea of insisting on Neutrik or locking connectors would be laughed at here as absurd and extra costly.
For decades, Parasound has made amps and preamps with 'knockoff' connectors, and before the JC-1, even the most expensive designs by me or anyone else, were with 'knockoff' connectors. It was only with the JC-series that we made a stand. The Taiwanese think we are 'nuts' to NOT use 'knockoff' connectors, and only with threats from my late business partner, Bob Crump and me, they would put 'knockoff' connectors on the JC-series too. I didn't take notice that the A-21 had a 'knockoff' connector, they all look the same to me, without close inspection. Personally, at this time, the Parasound amp that I am using, the HCA2500, uses a 'knockoff' XLR connector. I do not consider this amp the best I have ever had in my home system, but I broke the modified HCA-3500 that did sound better, by accidently spilling a cup of coffee into it. I sent it to Parasound to repair, and they ultimately threw it away, and gave me a couple of JC-1's, instead. However, the JC-1's are too powerful for my system, so I sold them to Jack Bybee, and stuck with the back-up prototype, the HCA-2500, and I am still using it today.
At this time I am designing a first class power amp (for another company) that will be rated about 250W/channel, and it will cost plenty, BUT it will have everything that I can throw at it, and I will be very happy to use it.
FOR THE MONEY, the A-21 is a very fine product, and I am proud of it.
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