Scott,
I think there are two issues here.
First it is quite possible there are differences that can be heard from the identical circuit when it is built with a different circuit board layout. Mixing "ground" signals and other errors will do that. Been there, done that and measured the difference. If the bad version has square corners for the traces the simple minded could mistake that for the reason.
Second what drives you and me FGBAP! is when the true believer not only picks the wrong feature but the difference is ascribed to some "scientific" explanation that is nonsense. Because we both know that Thor really does keep the electrons in line
!!Yes we smile at old mythology and do not recognize our own newer versions.
If someone wants to miter the corners of PC traces, just to be sure, that's fine. Just don't tell me why unless you have done the lab work to show the difference. Most of all please don't quote some other work out of context.
I am okay letting people hear whatever they want as long the voices in their head are not telling them to injure themselves or others.
As is well know there is a cure for ignorance, but not for stupidity.
ES
It's difficult to apply technology beyond that, however
manifestations of a further, deeper, reality are visible
(and audible) to those who open their minds.
You make the objective claim that something is audible, yet you provide no objective evidence to support that claim and say it is only audible to those who have open minds.
I'm sorry, but I find that insulting.
se
Scott,
Second what drives you and me FGBAP! is when the true believer not only picks the wrong feature but the difference is ascribed to some "scientific" explanation that is nonsense. Because we both know that Thor really does keep the electrons in line
ES
A certain person who will go unnamed except that he claims to have studied physics in school and has a reputation in some circles for designing preamplifiers claimed that the differences in the sound created by different wires is attributable to differences in the Fermi velocity of electrons in them. Or so he said once somewhere else.
And he also has repeated the microdiode theory, neither holds up under measurement. So he gets no brownie points for that. But there is a difference in wires. That is measurable. What the difference is will be determined by research not drivel.
It's not a quiet one- my kid got an electric guitar and electronic drums. Fortunately, they have headphone jacks...
A point that was just made, reminded me of wire theory. I should first make it plain that I am mostly interested in CIRCUIT TOPOLOGY. That is what I am good at, and most successful with.
However, over the decades I came to find that Geometry and Physics, are just as important in making a successful audio product. Learning, and especially proving these areas of science have been much more daunting for me, and just about everyone else in my life experience, including PhD's in physics who have seriously made the attempt.
This does change the results, however, in whether one makes a successful, or just a another audio product.
Trying to either measure or prove what serious listeners' ears tell me has been an extreme challenge, done mostly in my semi-retirement, (I haven't gone to an office to work on a regular basis) for about 20 years, so I have had more free time to delve in issues that I wish I had studied better at university, but didn't, because I thought it boring at the time.
I started this by trying to understand PRECISELY how current really flowed in a wire.
I found a book at a used bookstore in Berkeley, called: 'ELECTRONIC PROPERTIES OF MATERIALS' by Rolf E.Hummel, Springer-Verlag.
Chapter 7, 'Electrical Conduction in Metals and Alloys' was particularly informing as to how the general assumptions of electron flow in metals was so approximate, and that numerous exceptions, existed. Then finally: 'Conductivity---Quantum Mechanical Considerations' knocked my socks off! A sample:
"The Drude description of conduction thus needs modification. In the CLASSICAL picture one would assume that ALL electrons drift, under the influence of an electric field, with a modest velocity. Quantum mechanics, instead, teaches us that ONLY SPECIFIC ELECTRONS participate in conduction and that these electrons drift with high velocity which is approximately the Fermi velocity Vf. ..."
Get the book, those of you who care. It is a 'keeper'!
However, over the decades I came to find that Geometry and Physics, are just as important in making a successful audio product. Learning, and especially proving these areas of science have been much more daunting for me, and just about everyone else in my life experience, including PhD's in physics who have seriously made the attempt.
This does change the results, however, in whether one makes a successful, or just a another audio product.
Trying to either measure or prove what serious listeners' ears tell me has been an extreme challenge, done mostly in my semi-retirement, (I haven't gone to an office to work on a regular basis) for about 20 years, so I have had more free time to delve in issues that I wish I had studied better at university, but didn't, because I thought it boring at the time.
I started this by trying to understand PRECISELY how current really flowed in a wire.
I found a book at a used bookstore in Berkeley, called: 'ELECTRONIC PROPERTIES OF MATERIALS' by Rolf E.Hummel, Springer-Verlag.
Chapter 7, 'Electrical Conduction in Metals and Alloys' was particularly informing as to how the general assumptions of electron flow in metals was so approximate, and that numerous exceptions, existed. Then finally: 'Conductivity---Quantum Mechanical Considerations' knocked my socks off! A sample:
"The Drude description of conduction thus needs modification. In the CLASSICAL picture one would assume that ALL electrons drift, under the influence of an electric field, with a modest velocity. Quantum mechanics, instead, teaches us that ONLY SPECIFIC ELECTRONS participate in conduction and that these electrons drift with high velocity which is approximately the Fermi velocity Vf. ..."
Get the book, those of you who care. It is a 'keeper'!
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To this serious listener, what my ears tell me that there hasn't been a sound system made that can come close to duplicating the sound of live acoustical musical instruments by electronic or electro-mechanical means from a recording. On a scale of zero to one hundred where zero represents anyone with normal hearing being able to tell instantly he's hearing a recording and not a live performace and one hundred being even experienced listeners being unable to tell the difference most or all of the time, the state of the art remains....at zero.
Perhaps your problem was that you started in the wrong place. Sound is not an electrical phenomenon, it is a branch of mechanical engineering called fluid dynamics. Studying sound fields has been much more profitable to me than studying electrical circuits in this endeavor. This is where the problem begins and ends except for what goes on in the listener's mind interpreting the physical sound fields that reaches the ears. In comparison to the acoustic problems, the electrical problems have IMO for all practical intents and purposes been solved. The differences between average solutions and the best solutions are insignificant compared to the challenges in closing the gaps in acoustical science. The relevance of arguments over the role preamplifier circuits and wires play in the accurate reproduction of musical sounds from recordings are the equivalent of debating over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin would be to traveling to Mars.
Wow!
Will you please enlighten us with your amplifier design that stems from such a deep and unique knowledge? Or is it that, according to you, all amplifiers are the same?
If I ever put on a pair of tights my father would have kicked the poop out of me.
Ballroom dancing does not require tights, but when I studied ballet for several years, hoping to get into Ballet Theatre, I wore them every day. My father was NOT impressed, but I had to go my own path, once I reached college, rather than listen to him. That is what happens, when you became a gang member for a time, as I was in high school. It gives that separation from parental authority that allows you to grow, and try new things.
I hope that I did not surprise or upset anyone. It would seem that my critics think that anything outside their direct path, (usually nerdy), is impossible for someone like me, who is also experienced in circuit design. So, I might be accused of not knowing how to make music or otherwise participate in the Arts, so to speak. This is of course, untrue, and if I had been good enough, I might just as well have become a Rock and Roll musician, or a professional ballet dancer. In fact, I miss directly participating in the Arts, and to only work on reproduction of live performances, but at least, I have the experience that might not be like many engineers, who being conservative, might not know or come to appreciate the subtle prospects of actual music production and interpretation. This has worked for me.
I find this circuit quite interesting. Probably can also be done with Toshiba JFETs as a low power buffer, or SemiSouth Power JFETs as power buffer.
Aikido Cathode Follower & More Triadtron (about mid-page)
Not for those against transformers though....
Patrick
Aikido Cathode Follower & More Triadtron (about mid-page)
Not for those against transformers though....
Patrick
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