John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 855 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th January 2011, 01:24 AM   #8541
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
That has already been shown on this thread.
All audibility evidence so far has been anecdotal.
__________________
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 01:48 AM   #8542
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
> All audibility evidence so far has been anecdotal.

How would one take 'audibility evedence' beyond 'anecdotal' ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 02:12 AM   #8543
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitsware View Post
> All audibility evidence so far has been anecdotal.

How would one take 'audibility evedence' beyond 'anecdotal' ?
Simply a venue where either choice could happen by admission of all participants. No peeking no clue, and then choose.
__________________
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 02:41 AM   #8544
PHEONIX is offline PHEONIX  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post


Nope, just my hobby horse. A decent soundcard and free software can do just about any audio measurement you would ever need.
Hello Scott

What sound card is your first choice for audio measurements.

Arthur
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 02:46 AM   #8545
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHEONIX View Post
Hello Scott

What sound card is your first choice for audio measurements.

Arthur

I'm not the best person to ask, I like the Fostex FR2-LE, it works as a portable and data gatherer.
__________________
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 06:38 AM   #8546
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
Design engineer, consultant
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
As far as audio amplifiers are aimed at listening of recorded music, they are inevitably evaluated by listeners and listening tests, not only by measurements.

In case we design amplifiers for instrumentation, then they are hardly evaluated by ears . I believe that Mr. Scott Wurcer understands this difference.
__________________
Pavel Macura
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/audiopage.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 07:33 AM   #8547
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
As far as audio amplifiers are aimed at listening of recorded music, they are inevitably evaluated by listeners and listening tests, not only by measurements.[snip].
Of course. That is why both anecdotal and sighted as well as controlled and blind test are always conducted by listening.
The difference lies in the credibility and repeatablity of the results.


jan didden
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 08:26 AM   #8548
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
Design engineer, consultant
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
There are no objective guidelines (that we all would agree on and approve) how to perform a subjective test. For this reason, even "controlled test" results might seem anecdotal to some of us, depending on our experience and background.
__________________
Pavel Macura
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/audiopage.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 11:01 AM   #8549
работник
diyAudio Member
 
Rod Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Warwickshire UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
There are no objective guidelines (that we all would agree on and approve) how to perform a subjective test. For this reason, even "controlled test" results might seem anecdotal to some of us, depending on our experience and background.

It is a great relief to me that you cannot agree about such a test regime - hopefully it will discourage anyone from attempting it. What will you achieve by a objectivised test of subjective perceptions? The results of such testing will only lead to further confusion by anyone foolish enough to try to design an amplifier based on the outcome.

Any new amplifier of any Value will be designed by one with professional engineering ability AND good taste. Good taste formed by designing, building & evaluating parts and systems, and design topologies for her/himself.

It is perfectly reasonable to listen to a wide range of professionally designed amplifiers and decide that you like none of them. That happened to me, and is the reason why I design my own, to suit my taste. As an *anecdotal* coincidence, LPs played through my audio system achieve a more convincing representation of live music, in the view of (acoustic) musicians who have heard it (compared to the offerings at the 'boutique').


The suggestion that my designs could be improved by some kind of logic-driven multiple-choice component-selection process is perfect nonsense. The only outcome of such a process is science for the sake of science. The Poet Robert Graves, in the Little Memorial address to MIT (1963) warned his audience of following this erroneous path, condemning it as 'Intellectual Perversion'.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th January 2011, 11:56 AM   #8550
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
There are no objective guidelines (that we all would agree on and approve) how to perform a subjective test. For this reason, even "controlled test" results might seem anecdotal to some of us, depending on our experience and background.
Yes it can seem anything depending on your experience and background.
Nevertheless, there are quite accepted and well documented ways to do a controlled test. Those principles are valid for ANY controlled test, and is also sometimes called 'the scientific way'. These methods are as applicable to audio listening tests as to, say, testing two hammers for a specific performance point.
It's the METHOD that leads to reliable, repeatable tests.
But you know that of course.

jan didden
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:22 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2