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Old 2nd August 2010, 04:42 PM   #5371
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The real point here is that 'research' put forth in an acceptable way will be 'dismissed' by those who don't want to accept it, if it implies that humans are effected by reasonable worst-case emissions of ultrasonic energy.
For some, the world ends at 20KHz, and in practice, especially with CD reproduction it does, today. However, in the past with high speed analog recording, where we used B&K 1/2 inch mikes that went to 40 KHz, and today with SACD and 24/96K or greater, we again have a chance to potentially add another 'dimension' to audio quality.
Why not, at least consider it? Why can't we just discuss it, without being 'discredited'? Enquiring minds need to know. ;-)
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Old 2nd August 2010, 05:01 PM   #5372
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Why not, at least consider it? Why can't we just discuss it, without being 'discredited'? Enquiring minds need to know. ;-)
Who's stopping you from discussing it?

Are you saying that any opinions that a research program is badly flawed should be censored?
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Old 2nd August 2010, 05:16 PM   #5373
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SY, why this thread? Why not a thread that likes to criticize audio 'craziness'? Are there not enough threads available? You appear to attempt to quash discussion even before it starts, on this thread. I would encourage more links that keep us informed of some the the latest audio testing, rather than dismiss it.
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Old 2nd August 2010, 05:32 PM   #5374
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Why? It was never published as a Journal article and so never underwent formal peer review.

se
Yes, it never appeared in the JAES. I wouldn´t rely too much on the peer review process, but more if a published work meets the standards for scientific work.

And if the reader does not like the results of any study then the review board made something wrong, see for example SY´s comment.
Otoh i simply can´t understand why someone complains about Oohashis work but likes the ´famous´ Meyer/Moran (just an example) which has passed the `scrupulous´ review board of the JAES (makes me think sometimes what the ´relevant´ areas might be overthere )

Dismission due to missing peer review would be a deplorable replacement for content related arguments.

And of course there are some points to argue about in these papers.

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Old 2nd August 2010, 05:45 PM   #5375
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I would like to talk about 'politically correct' audio research.
Once, long ago, the AES was formed by interested engineers and audio manufacturers to give an outlet for audio engineers to present their findings at yearly meetings and even the chance, if sufficiently interesting, to be put in a journal published by the society.
Instead of JUST PhD professors having yet another place to 'publish, rather than perish', regular design engineers were encouraged to write a paper and give their findings in front of an audience of their 'peers' with questions and answers.
If this proved successful, the paper could be submitted to the 'journal' but before it would be published, it would be 'peer reviewed' by people in the audio industry. Then, with a few, usually minor modifications, it would probably appear in the JAES at some point.
To even give a paper was a reasonably daunting task. Not only did you have to write a paper and make appropriate measurements, but you had to make slides or transparencies in order to show and explain your measurements, and often, graphs.
I have done it and it is a real effort, unless this is a part of what you do for a living, like some professors, who must do this, and are paid by their university to attend these meetings, in interesting places like San Francisco, New York, London, Paris, etc.
Of course, if you are just a design engineer, working on your own, or for a small company, you have to pay for it all, yourself. Still, many of us in the old days, more than 30 years ago, still did this, because we loved audio as a hobby as well as an avocation and wanted to contribute to the 'art'. Well, that was then. What appears to happen now, in a future installment.

Last edited by john curl; 2nd August 2010 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 2nd August 2010, 06:56 PM   #5376
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
The real point here is that 'research' put forth in an acceptable way will be 'dismissed' by those who don't want to accept it, if it implies that humans are effected by reasonable worst-case emissions of ultrasonic energy.
For some, the world ends at 20KHz, and in practice, especially with CD reproduction it does, today. However, in the past with high speed analog recording, where we used B&K 1/2 inch mikes that went to 40 KHz, and today with SACD and 24/96K or greater, we again have a chance to potentially add another 'dimension' to audio quality.
Why not, at least consider it? Why can't we just discuss it, without being 'discredited'? Enquiring minds need to know. ;-)
now john,
we all know that human hearing falls off at more than 2,000db/oct starting at 18khz
it's impossible to hear past 20KHz
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Old 2nd August 2010, 07:01 PM   #5377
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I don't know, I used to hear 24KHz when I was in my 20's.
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Old 2nd August 2010, 07:43 PM   #5378
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Originally Posted by myhrrhleine View Post
now john,
we all know that human hearing falls off at more than 2,000db/oct starting at 18khz
it's impossible to hear past 20KHz
That confirms what I suspected, all those folks who demonstrate ability above that are alien imposters!
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Old 2nd August 2010, 07:50 PM   #5379
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Or girlie guys. ;-)
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Old 2nd August 2010, 07:52 PM   #5380
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Hmmm... I have often felt, or had the vague feeling that perhaps I am not of a species native to this planet. Or alternately that many of you are alien interlopers that have "taken over" by over-running the surface of the planet with your kind. (maybe akin to a plague of RATs??) Another theory is that symbiants have invaded your bodies and control you from within...

??



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