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Old 11th May 2014, 06:47 AM   #51981
Mooly is offline Mooly  United Kingdom
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The output of the Neve circuit fed from a low source impedance, and then a more "optimal" 6k.
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File Type: jpg Neve2.JPG (105.7 KB, 220 views)
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Old 11th May 2014, 08:45 AM   #51982
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Originally Posted by keantoken View Post
Thanks. But I now have a better question!

I want to use a ground+power plane in addition of course to good grounding techniques, for the RF benefits. Obviously you don't want signal going through the ground plane, so except for decoupling where problems would be worse if they did not. How does use of a ground plane affect good grounding practice?

Having a separate signal ground going across the ground plane would cause errors in the signal ground according to the currents flowing in the ground plane, but if you had a power plane on the other side of the ground plane, the power return currents would magnetically cancel. My question is, would the errors in induced in the signal ground actually be worse this way than they would be without a ground plane, where the power loop currents are free to radiate?
!personally I would buy Henry Otts books as well as others and look around the internet for information on analogue design and ground planes...Its only high powers stuff such as power amp outputs, for low level analogue you can use 1 ground plane. And most would get better results using a single contiguous ground than they would trying to work out where the currents are going as most don't really understand return currents so tend to over complicate the ground layout on PCBs.

Last edited by marce; 11th May 2014 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 11th May 2014, 08:48 AM   #51983
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Some will say that it is a problem with perception, but I trust my ears, they have rarely failed me, EXCEPT in ABX double blind tests set up by engineers and professors.
Where you cant see?
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Old 11th May 2014, 08:52 AM   #51984
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After listening to a Rupert Neve lecture from early 2000, I was inspired as to WHY the OLD circuits often sound better than the NEW circuits? They certainly don't measure 'better' but they can make memorable recordings, and can keep the essence of the musical performance better than digital or IC based designs do.
I am putting up one of Rupert Neve's early designs from the '60's. You will find that the Ampex tape recorder circuits at the time we about the same, and I made a number of successful recordings with them. Perhaps not as good as the vacuum tube electronics that preceded them, but better than the NEXT generation of electronics in the 70's that was IC based. Rupert Neve was very specific about what he found and why. I found the same thing independently at the time and still use the same design principles, today. Perhaps we can discuss this 'simple' circuit in more detail.
John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II
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Old 11th May 2014, 08:55 AM   #51985
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The simple tool for assessing is to pass the signal through the stage multiple times - what do you end up with, compared to the original? The ideal is obvious, but in the real world there are inevitable losses: if the "laboratory" version is technically more aligned to the start, but an artifact of unpleasantness has been gradually mixed in, vs. another circuit which is quite coloured by the end, but still possesses a high level of listenability, it doesn't offend the ears - then, which is 'superior'?
Care to explain in simpler terms please, I don't quite get what you are saying!
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Old 11th May 2014, 10:59 AM   #51986
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A=440 vs A=432

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Old 11th May 2014, 11:14 AM   #51987
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Care to explain in simpler terms please, I don't quite get what you are saying!
The "laboratory" stage creates a version which nominally is relatively undistorted, by conventional measuring, but some quite irritating low level "incorrectness" is introduced via the multiple passes; the other unit doesn't pass normal testing with flying colours, there is obvious colouration, which can be measured - but there is no irksome quality as part of that.
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Old 11th May 2014, 01:33 PM   #51988
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Well Pavel, the market has spoken. Dr Dre's Beats is reported to be selling for $3,000,000,000.00 ++! So your design goals are obviously wrong according to the market.

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Old 11th May 2014, 02:07 PM   #51989
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Google shelled out a similar sum for Nest.

The big tech companies are awash in cash . . . And seemingly any sense.

The money in tech today is not in semis. It's in the Cloud.
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Old 11th May 2014, 03:03 PM   #51990
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(Paying three times the total revenue figure makes more sense than 10:1)
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