John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 515 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd July 2010, 09:47 PM   #5141
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Ken, what part of "The problem, to me, in double blind testing, even in my own environment, is that most differences do disappear" is unclear to you?
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 09:58 PM   #5142
diyAudio Member
 
tomtt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: kansas city mo, and on occasion, around the world ...
Blog Entries: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
what special insight do you get into the sound quality of electronics/wire/whatever by peeking at the nameplate?

got a minor thrill, with this one, as this was the first time.


insight?

well ...

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 09:59 PM   #5143
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Electrophone Vega 101? Puts me in a mood for blinis and borscht.
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 10:01 PM   #5144
diyAudio Member
 
johnferrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: WA
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Ken, what part of "The problem, to me, in double blind testing, even in my own environment, is that most differences do disappear" is unclear to you?
What exactly is leftover when you subtract "most differences" from all differences?

-

How about a sighted test with two pairs of expensive and non-expensive components--switch "nameplates" between one of each?


.
__________________
Michael Gazzaniga - "The arts are not frosting but baking soda."

Last edited by johnferrier; 23rd July 2010 at 10:18 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 10:17 PM   #5145
работник
diyAudio Member
 
Rod Coleman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Warwickshire UK
I wonder if all the talk of 'Listening Test' and DBTs is getting us confused to the purpose of doing the tests.

I am entirely unable to perform competitive listening, or 'decide the champion amplifier', -- listening only works if I'm relaxed enough to enjoy the Music as a pleasure.

It might take all evening to decide about some little change to a design, but that's OK, I listen critically only to improve what I do, not to claim my design surpasses someone else's.

As a designer, I am content with the process, and believe that my results move forward. Now & again, I get a second opinion to make sure my long term reference does not drift too far from natural sound.

But I understand why one would not wish to get involved in competitions of this kind.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 10:23 PM   #5146
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Double blind testing appears to set the listener into a different mode of listening than more open listening. I think this is a left brain-right brain switchover that has been shown to happen visually, in being not being able to draw pictures, by people not trained as artists, even when their mechanical skills are adequate. Training people to draw, means that their right brain has to be more utilized. I think it is the same in listening. Direct comparisons seem to obscure differences. Listening in a relaxed environment seems to bring out differences, that once noted, remain, even years later.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 10:26 PM   #5147
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnferrier View Post
What exactly is leftover when you subtract "most differences" from all differences?
...
Clark's frequency response threshold curves?

clearly people can make relatively fine distinctions that are statistically significant in ABX tests - and the consequence is that anyone wanting to claim audible differences without matching to these levels is open to the obvious criticism that the level differences were the only "real" difference in a "relaxed" subjective test that didn't control for this

from: ABX Amplitude vs. Frequency Matching Criteria
Attached Images
File Type: gif abx_crit.gif (2.2 KB, 290 views)

Last edited by jcx; 23rd July 2010 at 10:39 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 10:37 PM   #5148
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
What about his 'Grunge' threshold?
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 11:20 PM   #5149
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnferrier View Post
What exactly is leftover when you subtract "most differences" from all differences?
People can hear all sorts of things in blind tests. Frequency response, phase, polarity, level compression, data compression, noise, crosstalk, distortion, overload, recovery time... for some reason, the bad vibes don't seem to inhibit those things. Hmmm.
__________________
You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.- Wilford Brimley
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd July 2010, 11:53 PM   #5150
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua_G View Post
I would rephrase your statement.
Only on very sensitive (and rare) loudspeakers, SET amps wouldn't distort on loud passages.
Furthermore, the extended details and microdynamics of SET amps are notable on almost any loudspeaker.
Josh, restatement or not, rare (your words) speakers are a minimum requirement to make a blind assesment of amplifier performance. My opinion remains that amplifier misbehavior and frequncy response deviation taint almost all casual "DBT's"

EDIT - Sorry Joshua my stepson is a Joshua G. and I am used to simply using Josh.
__________________
Neither the devil nor a character from a Kurt Vonnegut story, blissfully ignorant of the sound of feedback, at your service.

Last edited by scott wurcer; 24th July 2010 at 12:17 AM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:44 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2