John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 504 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd July 2010, 04:38 AM   #5031
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear View Post
Jan & all others - let's take the ABX debate off line...

tnx.

_-_-bear
That is good, ABX becomes a straw man. No one ever said a DBT = ABX.
__________________
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 04:42 AM   #5032
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
It is normally implied as the primary test for audio listening testing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 04:45 AM   #5033
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
It is normally implied as the primary test for audio listening testing.
Not by anyone who has even cursory knowledge of sensory testing.

Quote:
I do not look at nameplates. I just keep track of the components under test. I don't have to be told 'which is which'. I just need to know that this is L and this is M for example, or D and H. This nameplate thing is a 'slander' to compromise my experience, in making intelligent and correct audio decisions.
Wow, you can't even keep your story straight for two sentences in a row.
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 05:00 AM   #5034
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Sorry, what does Dr. Lipshitz and his associates do, anyway? They don't use ABX boxes anymore? News to me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 05:06 AM   #5035
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Many things seem to be news to you, despite having been presented time and time again.

Maybe you need larger print.



ABX is only one format of controlled sensory testing.


There. Did you see it this time?
__________________
And while they may not be as strong as apes, don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 05:07 AM   #5036
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Sorry, SY, let me make it clear for everyone. Nameplates do NOT impress me, but listening differences between two components does. To me, a 'nameplate' could bias the gullible. I agree to that, but keeping track of different sounding equipment still needs some sort of ID. For example, in 1978 I visited HK in Japan and was given a blind test of three circuits that I did not design or build. The evaluation equipment was good, I was very impressed with the engineers and the facility, and I gave my subjective impression of each circuit as it was presented, and compared them in ranking. They were very impressed. To me, it was just a day's work.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 05:42 AM   #5037
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
The same year, 1978, I tried the Spiegel ABX box in my own apartment and I could not tell the difference reliably, between a Levinson JC-2 line amp and a Dyna PAS-3X. That is when I realized that 'something' was wrong, and I wrote it up in a LTE correspondence between Dr. Lipshitz and others in 'The Audio Amateur' in 1979.
Perhaps those serious about this sort of testing should also read the 'other side' or the criticisms of ABX, etc. testing. They are still valid to me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 05:54 AM   #5038
diyAudio Member
 
Steve Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
For example, in 1978 I visited HK in Japan and was given a blind test of three circuits that I did not design or build. The evaluation equipment was good, I was very impressed with the engineers and the facility, and I gave my subjective impression of each circuit as it was presented, and compared them in ranking. They were very impressed. To me, it was just a day's work.
What exactly was the "test"?

Sounds like you were simply presented with three options and asked to rank them. If so, I don't see that that's any sort of test.

Now, if they had presented them to you as A, B, and C, asked you to rank them, then randomly changed their designations, asked you to rank them again, and then did this a dozen times and compared the results, that would have been a test.

But as you describe it here, it doesn't seem to be any sort of test at all.

se
__________________
The Audio Guild
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 06:39 AM   #5039
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
Well, HK was impressed. You see, they made up the test. Their expert listeners had already 'ranked' them and I got the same ranking between the 3 designs.
In truth, I find that I can hear differences in audio equipment. That has kept me trying to design better and better audio equipment over more than 4 decades.
I also find that I can be fooled by ABX tests. Why, may be argued, but it is a fact, at least for me. That is why I don't participate in ABX or similar blind testing.
It is important for me to assess subtle differences in audio components, if possible. If I don't, I can't make better products, and I will be out of a job. Therefore, I use what works for me, as it has for decades. I just listen, and sometimes compare.
I usually listen with pretty good equipment, and really good source material.
If others here are happy with blind or controlled testing to show them what they can hear, so be it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2010, 07:31 AM   #5040
diyAudio Member
 
Steve Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Well, HK was impressed. You see, they made up the test. Their expert listeners had already 'ranked' them and I got the same ranking between the 3 designs.
The odds of that happening would be a mere 1 in 6 even if you hadn't bothered to listen to anything. Don't know that I'd call that terribly impressive.

Quote:
In truth, I find that I can hear differences in audio equipment.
But you haven't been able to actually demonstrate that "truth."

se
__________________
The Audio Guild
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:04 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2