John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part II - Page 497 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Member Areas > The Lounge

The Lounge A place to talk about almost anything but politics and religion.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th July 2010, 08:05 PM   #4961
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
I Your use of "mask" is unclear here.
I meant "mask" for dithering (at least +/-1/2LSB), not for interpolation.
__________________
Pavel Macura
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/audiopage.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2010, 08:13 PM   #4962
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
PMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Prague
I would say we have enough "digital resolution" as soon as we are able to digitize precisely noise of the analog recording chain
__________________
Pavel Macura
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/audiopage.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2010, 08:14 PM   #4963
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
I meant "mask" for dithering (at least +/-1/2LSB), not for interpolation.
That's noise, not "masking." And you've now confused me. First you claim that dither doesn't increase resolution. Then you say what you meant was "masking," which you also haven't defined. Shall I wait 10 minutes for you to change your mind again?

If anyone wants to actually learn about dither and resolution, look up some of the cites I've given.
__________________
The more you pay for it, the less inclined you are to doubt it.- George Smiley
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2010, 08:15 PM   #4964
SY is offline SY  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
SY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicagoland
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
I would say we have enough "digital resolution" as soon as we are able to digitize precisely noise of the analog recording chain
Then we have enough digital resolution. It's easy to hear mike, mixer, and tape noise through a digital recorder.

We have enough analog resolution when we can precisely record the noise floor of a digital recorder.
__________________
The more you pay for it, the less inclined you are to doubt it.- George Smiley
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th July 2010, 09:42 PM   #4965
diyAudio Member
 
john curl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: berkeley ca
I stand with you, PMA. Random noise is not the same thing as low level information.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 12:17 AM   #4966
diyAudio Member
 
Steve Eddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
I stand with you, PMA. Random noise is not the same thing as low level information.
Who said it was? I seem to have missed it.

se
__________________
The Audio Guild
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 12:49 AM   #4967
diyAudio Member
 
Terry Demol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: *
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMA View Post
SY, thank you very much. I know the papers on dither, and different dithering methods as well. No dither would give you more than 16bits resolution from 16bits quantization. What you get is randomizing of quantization error, and change in SFDR. We are not here to repeat such basics.
There is a lot of misinformation being spread here presently.

This paper by Dan Lavry is well worth a read.

http://www.lavryengineering.com/white_papers/dnf.pdf

Note the plots of 16 bit dithered signal -125dB below full scale.

I am not disputing the fact that most digital implementations -sound- like
they have poor low level resolution.

T
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 01:05 AM   #4968
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
Quote:
Originally Posted by SY View Post
Then we have enough digital resolution. It's easy to hear mike, mixer, and tape noise through a digital recorder.

We have enough analog resolution when we can precisely record the noise floor of a digital recorder.
I have lots of CD's where you can clearly hear the tape hiss and the lack of it between cuts. It acts like self dither.
__________________
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 01:12 AM   #4969
diyAudio Member
 
Terry Demol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: *
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Gerhard View Post
When i record my little band, i use double speed DSD. When i downconvert to 16/44 and listen to the CD i burned, i can interstingly hear the biggest diffences in the bass. It sounds less warm and musical. Well, we do not have a drummer, its more guitar, bass and vocals and some beats from the drum computer so my material is not particular rich in treble transients.
Hi Joachim,

What recorder are you using to capture to DSD? Try the following -

Convert from DSD to PCM 176.4 / 24.

Down sample to 44.1 / 24 using a) Tony Faulkners averaging program (no
LPF) and b) a high quality SRC program (typically with with brickwall
filtering).

Use whatever dithering sounds best for that particular program material to
reduce from 24 bits to 16 bits.

Listen carefully at every step of the process to see the progressive
changes and where the biggest subjective quality reduction is.

I have done this exact process myself. The results can be surprising.

cheers

T
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st July 2010, 01:20 AM   #4970
diyAudio Member
 
scott wurcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: cambridge ma
We're back to the 100's of times oversampled bass being problematic, yawn.
__________________
"The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important."
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:09 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2