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Old 8th July 2013, 02:18 PM   #41541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marce View Post
I don't quite understand this analogy.
Digital doesn't compute in the analogue mind.

(reading two books, one is the even pages, other the uneven pages, behind one and the same hard cover)
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Old 8th July 2013, 02:28 PM   #41542
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Well played Dutchie .......
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Old 8th July 2013, 02:36 PM   #41543
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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Quote:
You don't have any purely digital ICs in a typical spdif DACs.
Mixed signal, RF - yes. Digital? Nope.
Digital filters and pld are digital, but aren't common nowdays.

And if you won't treat the digital thing in the right way, you'll get all the nasties of RFI all over the place...
We are discussing digital signals not DACs, that are shock hooror digital/analogue devices.
And treating digital as analogue is the best way to have problems, if you treat digital as digital and use digital electronic engineering disciplines then you don't have to worry about noise (RF is not digital, its RF and has its own disciplines, if you are referring to noise and digital it is covered by signal integrity (Howard Johnson, Eric Bogatin, Ralph Morrison etc) or EMC (Henry Ott ). Though airborne EMC is unwanted RF.
So the best way to do digital design is to employ digital design techniques, and more importantly, digital layout techniques, especially to minimise EMC and maximise signal integrity.
RF has nothing to do with DACs, so your mixed signal RF comment is way wrong.
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Old 8th July 2013, 02:45 PM   #41544
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Marce,
I understand what you are saying about separation of the digital domain from an analog domain but we are talking about CD players and somewhere the two must meet. At some point the digital must be converted to analog and this is where we get back into the analog domain. I loved the old ads for purely digital speakers, that was a real funny thing when I saw that, as if we could process a digital stream without converting to analog. But I do understand what you are saying about manipulation of a purely digital stream before any analog conversion.
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:00 PM   #41545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
played
My analogue head-stone will read : now he's all digits and bins.

(I just like knowing that the total sum of everything going into a single post, adds up to the cleanest meaning, and has some feeling/sense that it is nicely made, bordering on the aesthetics and arts in me)
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Last edited by jacco vermeulen; 8th July 2013 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:15 PM   #41546
marce is offline marce  United Kingdom
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No what I am disputing is the view that digital signals are analogue in the way some are referencing (not the fact that a digital signal is made up of numerous sine waves harmonics). I am quite aware about digital and analogue design, hence devices such as ADC's and DAC's, and I am very well aware of digital/analogue layout (RF as well). My argument is with those that like to attribute analogue style problems to digital signals.
The more you isolate your digital section from the analogue the cleaner you can keep the analogue supplies, which always helps.
But as I said it is not mixed signal RF (I don't even know what that is, never heard it used as a term before.)
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:26 PM   #41547
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Marce,
I think we know who you are talking about that wants to turn digital into an analog signal racing up a hill...... The analogies are somewhat off the wall sometimes, very loose mixing of metaphors I would say.
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:31 PM   #41548
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And even the assumption in the metaphor is false.

(though for analytical purposes, false + false = true)
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:31 PM   #41549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
How are CDs made - YouTube

The “CD player work” is a key phrase.

George
No it isn't. 'Make the CD player work' is a clear case of antropomorphism - assigning human-like activities or feelings to innate objects. The CD player doesn't 'work'. Its a piece of equipment where data is processed and output. The error correction activity is part of the normal processing; either one set of bits is selected or another set is selected. The player'doesn't 'know' which is which, it actually doesn't 'know' anything.

What we did say earlier is that damaged CD's *may* (and it still is speculation so far) cause more servo currents from the power supply and that those * might* (and it still is speculation so far) lead to signal contamination via de PSRR. But 'speculation' is the real keyword here...

jan
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Last edited by jan.didden; 8th July 2013 at 03:32 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 8th July 2013, 03:41 PM   #41550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simon7000 View Post
SY

There is a simple experiment anyone can do. Rip a wav file to your hard drive. Burn a CD from it. Then rip the copy to the hard drive. Do that 16 times. Then you can do an accurate same level comparison of the original vs the final copy.
Been there, done that (maybe three or four times not 16). Use a DOS or Unix diff utility (it compares the data as bits period), and the difference was null until I compared the ripper from a $10 keychain mp3 player to EAC in paranoid mode. I got ONE bad 16 bit word on an entire 23 min LP cut (the one that was basicly trashed).
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