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Old 8th April 2013, 10:19 PM   #37851
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Ironically, clicks and pops reproduction is a real test for the dynamic behavior of the cartridge. See an example with some very low amplitude disturbances
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Yes, the fact that bad ones usually come exactly 60/33.3 sec. apart helps to.
Good one!
There are numerous problems with the vinyl. When I look at the phase-scope while playing a mono record and observe the extend of deviation from the 45 degrees, I understand that clicks and pops is the easiest problem to correct. Other issues are almost unresolvable.
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Last edited by gpapag; 8th April 2013 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 8th April 2013, 10:33 PM   #37852
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Old 8th April 2013, 10:38 PM   #37853
RNMarsh is online now RNMarsh  United States
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In one of my other lives' attempt at music production, I did location recording in the San Fransisco bay area. It was quit startling to find that the recording when played back from master recorder sounded SOOOOO much better than LP's. The most noticable was the clarity of the high freqs which are never so good on LP for a variety of reasons. Over time, i have been convinced the recordings - either tape or digital are not the biggest problem .... it is most definitely trashed in the recording production side.
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Last edited by RNMarsh; 8th April 2013 at 10:42 PM. Reason: Trashed recording production
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Old 8th April 2013, 11:16 PM   #37854
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When removing clicks and pops, one has to use the appopriate tools. Cutting away samples or using some $100 shareware won't do.

Edit: I aso agree to what Richard says - it's mostly artists, producers and record labels who are responsible for screwing up the sound - they dictate what sound they want, not mastering engineers.

Last edited by elektroj; 8th April 2013 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 9th April 2013, 02:08 AM   #37855
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When removing clicks and pops, one has to use the appopriate tools. Cutting away samples or using some $100 shareware won't do.
That's why I did my own third order spline interpolator. When you add the actual judgement and observation of the user to set the cut points the results are amazingly invisible and inaudible.

Third order matches the slopes at the cut points as well as the fit. I've tried some demo versions of much more than shareware with much worse results. The worst are the frequency domain fixers which don't work very well on an essentially time domain problem.
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Last edited by scott wurcer; 9th April 2013 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 9th April 2013, 09:47 AM   #37856
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That's why I did my own third order spline interpolator.
Ah, the man of many skills :-) Does it work on all content or only on periodic waveforms? The manual declicker I'm familiar with has 5 different algorithms for different material.
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Old 9th April 2013, 11:49 AM   #37857
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Ah, the man of many skills :-) Does it work on all content or only on periodic waveforms? The manual declicker I'm familiar with has 5 different algorithms for different material.
By manual I mean manual, you listen, back step at every annoyance, select the region by hand where the slope before and after click/pop looks "good" and push go. The actual fit is the classic third order spline (you can find it on the web). I'm not sure that a higher order fit would help.

This is not for really bad matierial but my very clean < 50-100 or so pops per side stuff. I have worked on automating it but now the C++.net environment is too much like a second job (maybe a SoX add on in gcc would do?)

I'll see if I can make a picture.
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Old 9th April 2013, 11:53 AM   #37858
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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That's why I did my own third order spline interpolator.
Scott
I understand that you approach is more cautious than mine (my method can be called “spline reforming” ).
I would like to ask you if you have tried to apply dither after spline interpolator treatment, your version and/or all the software you tried.

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The worst are the frequency domain fixers which don't work very well on an essentially time domain problem.
True and spot on! (SY will come and point that this frequency/time domain mismatch is false ).

My understanding is that “judgment and observation of the user” sets some criteria which are flexible and variable (click and pop wave shapes are really multishape), to the extend that it is difficult for now to be encoded in an algorithm.
[/QUOTE]

George
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Old 9th April 2013, 11:57 AM   #37859
coresta is offline coresta  France
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Hi, how do you explain that, sometimes, even with thicks and pops, an old LP can make you hear a REAL acoustic instrument (keyboard) in front of you ? The surface noises become less sensitive, as a sort of disturbance played BEHIND the music , far behind the scene ??
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Old 9th April 2013, 12:06 PM   #37860
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By manual I mean manual, you listen, back step at every annoyance, select the region by hand where the slope before and after click/pop looks "good" and push go. The actual fit is the classic third order spline (you can find it on the web). I'm not sure that a higher order fit would help.

This is not for really bad matierial but my very clean < 50-100 or so pops per side stuff. I have worked on automating it but now the C++.net environment is too much like a second job (maybe a SoX add on in gcc would do?)

I'll see if I can make a picture.
Scott, take a look at pdf to see what I ment by different algorhitms for different material. (That's the tool I'm using, btw).
Yours is closer to which one? A? B? E?
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Last edited by elektroj; 9th April 2013 at 12:08 PM.
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