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Old 18th February 2013, 10:24 PM   #35411
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Point out the problems in the 'scientific' double blind wine tasting tests to me, Kindhornman, and then we can both agree. Then, I might point out the problems in the 'scientific' double blind audio testing that I have found over the decades, and you just might come to agree with me on this subject. '-) Do your homework, Kindhornman, before criticizing me about what I have brought forth.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:31 PM   #35412
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Point out the problems in the 'scientific' double blind wine tasting tests to me...
There may not be any. The issue isn't their test, it is your repeated mis-characterization of what the test was and what the results mean.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:35 PM   #35413
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Gee, I don't know, what do they mean, SY? And don't insult my intelligence. '-)
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:43 PM   #35414
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John,
The subjective question was only could the entire sample size tell which wine was the most expensive and rate the wines by price alone. The problem with the result, not that anyone could identify the most expensive wine, but the conclusion therefore that we should never buy an expensive bottle of wine since they are all the same in taste. That was not what was tested, it was a test only to determine a selling price. Two very different questions and two different answers. The author made the conclusion based on the subjects ability to rank price only.

John,
You were going to go out on your birthday with Scott to an expensive restaurant. I assume that the food is good and that is why they could charge high prices. But if I did an experiment with people who didn't like that type of food and they said they would not pay a high price for the food does that mean that you should never go to an expensive restaurant because all food must taste the same, price has no effect on the quality of the food served? If he offered to take you to In&Out Burger would you have been excited about that. Price and quality are often not connected, but not all the time. The same with rating a wine based only on price. I worked in a medical lab when I was young. One thing we "had" to do was to run a control sample before and after the testing. This was not something we took lightly. If the result from the pre and post controls did not match the tests had to be done over, even if you thought that the results were correct. There was no issue with this. No wiggle room was allowed.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:46 PM   #35415
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Look at the sample sizes chosen, Kindhornman. Tell me more!
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:50 PM   #35416
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Gee, I don't know, what do they mean, SY? And don't insult my intelligence. '-)
I explained it, very carefully, several times. I did the same the last several times you pulled out that press release. If you still don't get it (or more likely, won't get it), I can't help that, it's between you and your conscience. Your shot at Jan which kicked this off was not only cheap, but aimed the wrong way.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:57 PM   #35417
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Originally Posted by john curl View Post
Don't give me some insult that I am 'anti-scientific'.
Just two questions, John:
-It is giving an insult to say that quoting somebody else as a proof of something is not a scientific approach ? don't you feel the difference with a personal remark ?
- What is a scientist ?

Yes, 3 questions, in fact, i'm not very scientific :-)
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Last edited by Esperado; 18th February 2013 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 18th February 2013, 10:58 PM   #35418
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John,
What does the sample size have to do with confusing the conclusion with the original question. I have taken statistics, I hated it but go through it. It has nothing to do with the mean, medium, outlier, or anything else if you ask a leading question and use that to get a result that had nothing to do with the original question. Why do you believe the conclusion, it was irrelevant to the study that was done.

John,
We could easily set up a test such as this to prove that high end audio is a fraud. Since all the devices are capacitors, resistors, inductors and even Opamps that are used in all audio products they are therefor all the same. There is no real difference between the general parts used. I could set up that type of test and use 1000 people in the study and word the question however I would like. I could get almost the entire test sample to agree that all of your products are a fraud. Does that mean it is true or I believe that, no, but a statistical test does not tell lies. It only gives you some information but you can easily skew a result in statistics and that is one of the lessons we had to learn in two semesters of that horrible math.

Last edited by Kindhornman; 18th February 2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:05 PM   #35419
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Mr Curl,

you are making a b...y fool of yourself here. Give it up - it is very embarrassing.
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Old 18th February 2013, 11:11 PM   #35420
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Hmmm ... I think someone's birthday has well and truly disappeared into the mists ...

Frank
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