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Old 11th February 2013, 11:41 PM   #34841
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Sy,
Your profile interests me greatly. Your listing of Dr. of Polymers tweaks my interest and I have some questions you could more than likely answer but this thread and this forum is not the correct place to ask any questions. Science is my friend even if many subject are currently over my head.
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Old 11th February 2013, 11:48 PM   #34842
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
I don't understand your point. By habit, engineers try their best to design the best things they can. And as opposite of what is often pretended, they CARE a lot of the sound quality, reason why they had chose this job rather than an other branch.
They are not so stupid to not being concerned by ergonomic. It is often their boss witch reduce the price/quality, ask for more gadgets etc...
I think it is not so complicated to explain the things in a comprehensive way. But audiophiles prefer to put their fear in somebody with a nice voice more than in a clear demonstration and logic demonstration.
I'm not talking so much of getting an individual component up to some level of performance or not, rather that if a consumer does something seemingly silly or largely irrelevant to a system that the sound changes. So, either the "experts" need to have a list of all the pre-requisites for the device to perform adequately, or effective suggestions as to how mitigate these influences, or best of all, make the component robust ... meaning, no matter what the consumer does within reasonable limits that the behaviour of the component doesn't change.

A simple example: put different supports under an amplifier, the sound changes. How does the industry currently deal with that?

Frank

Last edited by fas42; 11th February 2013 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 11th February 2013, 11:49 PM   #34843
SY is offline SY  United States
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Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
I have some questions you could more than likely answer but this thread and this forum is not the correct place to ask any questions.
Feel free to use the email link from the forum and we can "talk" offline. "Dr. Polymer" is the nickname Pete Millett gave me during my plastics days- now that I'm doing lubricants, metalworking fluids, and mold releases, he feels that "Dr. Fluids" sounds more intriguing.
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:09 AM   #34844
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Originally Posted by fas42 View Post
put different supports under an amplifier, the sound changes.
Do you have some poor welding in your amp, or did-you use tubes ?
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:13 AM   #34845
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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their job as a reference headphone is not reproducing a resonance or space that isnt there. did you look at the page I linked? you couldnt have, as youve just parroted the same thing you said before again in different words, my (headphone system) chain is not lacking, my (headphone) chain does not have a resonance centered at 6.5kHz, my chain does not normally sound like the space is expanded. it (the resonant mode at 6.5khz) sounds similar to the effect of really bad jitter to me, which makes some sense.

the link shows fairly clearly and objectively what i'm talking about. the measurements I linked are done by the same person who did the ones you are basing your 'opinions' on (Tyll, who founded headroom and sold it a few years ago, now runs innerfidelity) Tyll did the headroom measurements. but these are later, more closely and with better equipment after some people started all saying the same thing, they are not neutral.
Not wishing to push more buttons, qush, but I note in that link, by the author:

Quote:
It also appears to me that the mod shown here does something similar to the removable liner in the HD 800, so Sennheiser engineers have already done things to address damping in the headphone. My guess is that the stock HD 800 is a terrific compromise of many, many issues --- most of which none of us will ever know or appreciate --- but in sum I find it the highest expression of headphone engineering to date.
and

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Frequency response comparison against the stock headphone shows it within a couple dB of the stock headphone, though slightly flatter to 10kHz, and slightly lower in level above that. To my ears, this mod makes a remarkable difference. For me it does change the HD 800 from a headphone that's brutally honest, to one that's simply honest. I think it really is a worthwhile modification.
and

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The HD 800 is already the world's best dynamic headphone in my opinion. It images like no other.
All my experience in this audio game has shown me that a system goes through a phase of being "brutally honest", until the last ounce of tweaking has sorted out distortion issues. FR has never figured in this finessing, for me, so my tendency would be to believe that it is the same for headphones ...

Frank
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:27 AM   #34846
fas42 is offline fas42  Australia
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Originally Posted by Esperado View Post
Do you have some poor welding in your amp, or did-you use tubes ?
Humour, unfortunately, doesn't solve the problem ... ,

The forums run deep with anecdotes of that "effect", I have played with such quite a lot in the past ... now that I've addressed some of the underlying problems it's something I largely don't worry about - that robustness I mentioned earlier ...

The point is, parts within components are sensitive to vibrations, and the "experts", in audio, largely don't want to know about it. In one sense audio is a measuring instrument aiming for accuracy of 1 part in a million, and any scientist worthy of the name knows this can be bloody hard to do! 1 part in a thousand is dead easy, cheap as chips machinery can do this ... once past this point sloppiness in any area will be severely punished by "wrong" readings ...

Frank
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:28 AM   #34847
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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yeah hes an hd800 fanboi from wayback, it was amazing he even admitted there was an issue. which says more about how many other people have brought the issue up.

yes, you only illustrate my point, you know THE POINT IVE BEEN MAKING FOR THE LAST 10 HOURS? what makes you think that music, even delicate well recorded music is supposed to hurt you if someone makes a slightly grating noise in the background? brutally honest as opposed to honest is a negative. is that how you experience life or just music? it must be really hard to get around the world with that condition. is it just something you reserve to keep your nervosa healthy along with all these conspiracies and thinking you know better than designers?

Last edited by qusp; 12th February 2013 at 12:42 AM. Reason: removed the obvious
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:38 AM   #34848
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Fas42,
What you are describing is obviously a mechanical vibration of some component in your equipment. Yes changing the type of footer under the equipment will change that as each different type of material will have a different transfer function. A rubber foot is going to transfer energy different than a solid aluminum foot. That is easy to understand. But your real problem is internal to the equipment. If it is that bad you could encapsulate the entire electronics in a potting compound that would stop that or highly attenuate it. Don't attempt to repair the equipment after that as your out of luck after potting. Why not just isolate the offending piece of equipment inside a secondary enclosure such as a sealed box with the equipment suspended internally to the secondary enclosure? Your situation is easily understood by most everyone here, it is not some mystery of some magic component.
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:39 AM   #34849
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That's great! Somehow I missed that despite subscribing to Nature.
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Old 12th February 2013, 12:40 AM   #34850
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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there were measurements and technical statements in that article to go along with the unbridled opinion
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